How to proceed

[technowolf]

HI guys
How do you guys proceed for quoting car, trailer, window graphics and lettering,
Do you guys sketch a design and price for free? OR not?
But then the client wants a price and see the design before paying, but often they will go around town with your design and shop the best price, im tired of this...

French

 

[CheapVehicleWrap]

Not.

 

[Brandon708]

Usually if someone wants a quote and they come into the shop I will do a layout just so I can get a better idea on the quote. If there is someone that is just calling and asking for a quote and it seems they are just calling all the sign companies in the area I try to get them to come in and let them know I can't just throw a number out there if I don't know exactly the materials and time that will be used.

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

i don't give quotes....i give estimates....i ESTIMATE the cost of the vehicle based off the information the potential customer gives me and the sizes available for the vehicle/windows/whatever....

after a half down deposit i will start sketching....not before....if the customer gives me a $500 deposit and then decides to take my design elsewhere, i'll be angry they didn't get the finished product from me, but i at least got reimbursed for the design.....i don't work for free.....

 

[Baz]

You can quote a ballpark figure and see how much the customer is willing to put forth but no design should be done unless you get a deposit first. E N D O F S T O R Y.

 

[jiarby]

im tired of this...

Then quit doing it! What you should do is have a nice portfolio of work that you can show them. If they like your style and body of work then they will buy.

You explain the workflow... you start working after they place an order, then they approve the proof, you schedule install date, you produce the print, car gets cleaned & prepped, install gets done.

If you seem like a professional and do things professionally then the customer can pick up that vibe and you will close deals on your terms.

 

[Rick]

I only design, so I get paid... my portfolio is what qualifies me. I do lose money on initial presentations, quoting, and contract stuff that gets turned down, I'm not about to give the fun stuff away. Of all the sign shops I worked at, very few charged.

Most people on the site will probably say that you should charge because they do... the reality is, the majority of sign shops DO NOT charge for design.

I have 3 freelance sign shop clients right now, for all of them, I design work for them, they do not charge. Some jobs are in the hundreds of hours and the return is very high. I occasionally get the "can we cut corners" talk or discuss charging for design. I believe their apprehension is that they believe that's how it should be done, and even when they lose big... and they do, they think they simply have no choice....

If you are not convinced, for an experiment, I think you should try every 3rd or 4th customer who walks in, you quote or estimate the work with no design, if they want to see the design, you charge them a small fee (maybe not enough to cover the design, but enough where you feel comfortable, if they shop it around, the buyout for the design will be X amount of dollars.. and see what happens. If they don't let them walk...

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

i don't charge for the design (unless it's logo design), but i pad the estimate to cover time needed for layout...but i don't start any work until $$ has been received....

 

[technowolf]

Some peole are sometimes offended because I will not design until a deposit is received...so I do it and hope im not working for nothing...

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

you're offering a custom product....they couldn't go into a cabinet place and the guy draw a design to redo their kitchen without a deposit....they can't go to an architect to have an addition to their house drawn up with out a deposit...your work is just as custom...

 

[BROWNDOG]

i have to disagree with fenris. around here the custom cabinet places throw some dimensions in their program, arrange a few things and give a sketch and price per foot on the basic models, i've also had engineers do a set of drawings for me to develope some land without any money up front i was surprised but it seems everyone is offering "free estimates" which includes a basic design or layout of some, how else can i "estimate" a job if i dont know how much material i'll be using.

 

[WhiskeyDreamer]

that's why its called an estimate....with my knowledge i can give a pretty damn good estimate on nearly any job that walks in the door....if it's something more specialized, i write up an estimate sheet and tell the customer i'll call them or email them once i have something worked up....

i don't do any layout or design without money...why should i put time into something that i can only sell to one person and no one else without being compensated for it??

if you found a cabinet guy or architect to do designs for free...great for you....but i'm not going to give away my work, and that's exactly how i explain it the customer walking in the door....if you want my service, a deposit is required....

 

[jiarby]

how else can i "estimate" a job if i dont know how much material i'll be using.

Why don't you know how much material youwill be using? If you know the car make/model/year then you can get the sqft needed from your design software (like PVO)

From that base estimate you can quickly come up with a price for a given area. You can generalize by type... Mini's/Compacts, Small, Midsize, Small Truck, Full Size Truck, Small SUV, SUV, Box Truck, Trailer.


Explain that there are four elements that define the costs for a vehicle advertising program... Design, Print Production, Vehicle Prep/Installation, and.... BUDGET!
Based upon your interview about their needs/goals ("profiling") you can explain how you can tailor an advertising program that gets the job done AND meets their budgetary requirements.

Maybe you mix print elements with cut vinyl... maybe it is a half wrap with door decals. Whatever. Then you can also "coordinate" the marketing by creating business cards, point of sale posters, rack cards, sales sheets, window decals, banners, bandit signs, etc.. to MULTIPLY the effectiveness of the vehicle design.

Think about Geek Squad. I will bet you visualized that black & white VW with the orange emblem... They standardized on a vehicle design and it became the core of their brand identity and marketing campaign.

What if they just said... how much to wrap my VW?

Sell the SOLUTION...

The guy wants to increase sales & visiblilty. Show him how you can do that for him. A vehicle program is just one piece of the puzzle.

 

[surf city]

You first need to know what the customer is looking for, everyjob is different. A set of magnetic signs is going to cost different than a partial wrap or a full wrap etc., etc. Then you know what your up against and what materials you are going to use so when you do the layout you know what to charge for materials etc. I have done several layouts without a deposit but, if the customer says "hey great let me take the layout with me and I'll think it over and call you tommorrow" I say sure that's going to be and I give him a number based on my design time. If he balks I tell him the layout took time and I don't work for free and that the design cost will be applied to the deposit. They usually say "ok when do you think it will be done". You still are going to get people that are jackasses about it but hey, no artwork leaves my shop without being paid for. I had a contractor tell me I was being a jerk for acting like this so I told him I want an addition on my house draw me a set of plans and I'll stop by when they are ready and then take them with me so I can decide. Had the nerve to tell me it wasn't the same thing. I told him to have a nice day and never saw him again.

 

[dj_elite]

you're offering a custom product....they couldn't go into a cabinet place and the guy draw a design to redo their kitchen without a deposit....they can't go to an architect to have an addition to their house drawn up with out a deposit...your work is just as custom...

Bad example. Lowes and others do it for free even if you dont buy the cabinets

 

[Locals Find!]

I can't speak for other shops but, I will draft up a basic design for free. I don't however, let it leave my control. They can't take it around to another shop because, they see it only on my screen and only on my copyright proof sheet.

If and when they pay for design then they may have it. The sign, wrap, magnet etc.. are all just commodities. The art is where the money is made. Its the only unique item any of us can really offer. Don't sell yourself short by giving away design.

 

[astro8]

We get 50% deposit up front, they then get a layout using their artwork. If they have no artwork, then it's $200 an hour design time.

 

[Mosh]

I give ballpark prices and only design if I know for a FACT I have the job.