If somebody has not paid for a sign, do we have the right to go take it back?

[WhatsYourSign?]

Would this be considered theft even though they've never paid for it?

I have somebody who has been ghosting me for months, refusing to answer calls or emails and I'm wondering what my options are.

I'm likely just going to take them to small claims court, as I'm sure you'll be advising, but I'm still curious about ownership for something that hasn't been paid for.


In my mind, it seems like this would be acceptable and the equivalent of a car dealer repossessing a vehicle that hasn't been paid for, but I'm not a lawyer.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Would this be considered theft even though they've never paid for it?

I have somebody who has been ghosting me for months, refusing to answer calls or emails and I'm wondering what my options are.

I'm likely just going to take them to small claims court, as I'm sure you'll be advising, but I'm still curious about ownership for something that hasn't been paid for.


In my mind, it seems like this would be acceptable and the equivalent of a car dealer repossessing a vehicle that hasn't been paid for, but I'm not a lawyer.

I think the consensus will be to just take them to court. I dont think your allowed to remove the sign. Maybe you can shame them on social media? Are they leasing the storefront? Maybe contact the landlord because in some cases they own what's attached to the building

 

[WildWestDesigns]

In my mind, it seems like this would be acceptable and the equivalent of a car dealer repossessing a vehicle that hasn't been paid for, but I'm not a lawyer.

Did they sign a contract that had repossession as a clause if no payment has been remitted after X amount of time? With car dealerships (and others), there is a clause that clearly outlines what happens if payment hasn't been remitted and how long. Usually they also can't go straight from non payment to repos, usually there has to be stages and things done at certain stages. Of course, this does depend on your jurisdiction.

How, this is going to be worded depends on your jurisdiction for the contract as well. Here in TN (among others), repossession has to be stated as such. Can't use "colorful" language like "emergency repairs" or another other BS like that. Which I understand, if one want's that type of recourse, need to have the guts to actually word it like it is.

Now, I'm sure that there is going to be at least on person that says repo it, nothing going to happen. While it may be true that nothing does happen, that doesn't quite mean that it isn't illegal to do a repo in such a manner.

Also, be aware that depending on the jurisdiction that you are in, the sign (while may having been commissioned by one person and should have been paid by that person) depending on how it is affixed to the building, may actually be the property of the building owner. So if you go in and ruin the building in the process of removing said sign, that could get you into trouble with the building owner as it's their property. Again that depends on the jurisdiction.

Is it fair, does it sound right.....Not really, it should be simple. Some like to think that it is, but it really isn't. Just don't want to be the one left standing when the music stops.

Now this is coming from a non lawyer, so take it for what it's worth (not much I'm sure). I would, however, strongly suggest that you find out what is or isn't permissible in your jurisdiction. That may or may not mean that you get burned on this job, but it will allow you to be more comfortable in future situations. More knowledge, means less likely to be a victim.

 

[equippaint]

It's a civil matter, bad debt. I think you'd have to have a UCC filing on the sign to be able to repossess it which is similar to a lien on a car. If you don't have a lien on a vehicle, you have no repossession rights.

Did you install it? If so, you may go the route of filing an NTO and lien the property. I think you can do it after the fact in Virginia.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

Did they sign a contract that had repossession as a clause if no payment has been remitted after X amount of time? With car dealerships (and others), there is a clause that clearly outlines what happens if payment hasn't been remitted and how long. Usually they also can't go straight from non payment to repos, usually there has to be stages and things done at certain stages. Of course, this does depend on your jurisdiction.

How, this is going to be worded depends on your jurisdiction for the contract as well. Here in TN (among others), repossession has to be stated as such. Can't use "colorful" language like "emergency repairs" or another other BS like that. Which I understand, if one want's that type of recourse, need to have the guts to actually word it like it is.

Now, I'm sure that there is going to be at least on person that says repo it, nothing going to happen. While it may be true that nothing does happen, that doesn't quite mean that it isn't illegal to do a repo in such a manner.

Also, be aware that depending on the jurisdiction that you are in, the sign (while may having been commissioned by one person and should have been paid by that person) depending on how it is affixed to the building, may actually be the property of the building owner. So if you go in and ruin the building in the process of removing said sign, that could get you into trouble with the building owner as it's their property. Again that depends on the jurisdiction.

Is it fair, does it sound right.....Not really, it should be simple. Some like to think that it is, but it really isn't. Just don't want to be the one left standing when the music stops.

Now this is coming from a non lawyer, so take it for what it's worth (not much I'm sure). I would, however, strongly suggest that you find out what is or isn't permissible in your jurisdiction. That may or may not mean that you get burned on this job, but it will allow you to be more comfortable in future situations. More knowledge, means less likely to be a victim.

My plan is to take them to court, this was more to satisfy my curiosity.

With that said, this is really helpful information...thank you!

 

[player]

Old school is to get the crew out there at the crack of dawn. Remove the sign. When it is on their building it is part of the real property. When you take it off and it is on the sidewalk, you own it. The trick is to get it off the property without anyone being there. When you have it back in your possession, don't admit you took it down, it just showed up at your shop... Old school sign guy repossession.

 

[equippaint]

Old school is to get the crew out there at the crack of dawn. Remove the sign. When it is on their building it is part of the real property. When you take it off and it is on the sidewalk, you own it. The trick is to get it off the property without anyone being there. When you have it back in your possession, don't admit you took it down, it just showed up at your shop... Old school sign guy repossession.

Haha yeah and waste more time taking it down to do what with it? The only value it has it to the end user. If you installed it then lien the property, if not, eat it or pass it off to an attorney.

 

[Gino]

How much money is this whole deal worth ??

And how much do you have outta pocket ?? No profits or mark-up involved.

Once the sign is in their possession or installed, it is their sign, regardless if they didn't pay you a penny for it. Collecting the money is up to you, but you can't break the law to get it.

 

[WhatsYourSign?]

How much money is this whole deal worth ??

And how much do you have outta pocket ?? No profits or mark-up involved.

Once the sign is in their possession or installed, it is their sign, regardless if they didn't pay you a penny for it. Collecting the money is up to you, but you can't break the law to get it.

Thanks Gino.

 

[ProPDF]

Don't trust the legal system. I'll white glove repo the sign for you for a small fee, for a little more I can burn the whole place down. Our hours of operation are Sunday morning between 2:45am-3:45am. We are closed the rest of the week. We have plenty of 1 star reviews on yelp for reference. This also helps set the example for other non/late paying customers.

 

[player]

Sometimes it's the principle of it, not the amount.

 

[Gino]

You have no principles, if you resort to these measures.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Sometimes it's the principle of it, not the amount.

So, in your mind, it makes it good for a supposed professional to act like a thief?

While I can understand the temptation, the frustration, the desire, the rationalization to do something like that. Doing something that is also illegal is no bueno and in my eyes, makes the person doing it less of a professional when they don't go through legal channels.

Yes, sometimes it bites and one loses when trying to do things on the up and up. Life isn't fair. Learn from it and protect yourself for later on.

 

[player]

So, in your mind, it makes it good for a supposed professional to act like a thief?

While I can understand the temptation, the frustration, the desire, the rationalization to do something like that. Doing something that is also illegal is no bueno and in my eyes, makes the person doing it less of a professional when they don't go through legal channels.

Yes, sometimes it bites and one loses when trying to do things on the up and up. Life isn't fair. Learn from it and protect yourself for later on.

That's how it used to be done. If you take back your property then good for you. Play it in court and get a judgement. Then try to collect. But if you want to get your property back, go get it. F them.

 

[Gino]

No, it was never done like that, unless you didn't know any better. Maybe up there you can break the laws without a problem. If you can't get a deposit and the balance afterwards, then you're doing something wrong.

Next question is........ what's the reason they don't wanna pay ?? Do they feel like they received lousy work ??

 

[fixtureman]

You can take them to small claims court but you can't make them pay you still have to be able to recoup your money. If they gave you a deposit check you can then use that to reccoup your money and other expenses through the court

 

[visual800]

It depends on the signage itself. Was it huge? Was it dimensional lettering? How much money we talking here? Small claims court is waste of time. Hiring an attorney is waste of time. We have a disclaimer on our invoices and I will take my sign back and THEN will shame you on social media. I dont expect others to speak up and tell me "Im a rebel and a redneck" BUT thats how Ive done it and I must say repo was successful. Social media slamming was awesome. However if you want to do things the proper way than go to court and spend time away from shop and still end up with nothing.

 

[Moze]

Make an early morning run and overlay the sign with vinyl with a friendly 'Sign Covered Due to Non-Payment' message printed on it. Cheap, fast and effective. They in effect no longer have a sign, it's a bad reflection on them as a business which is a good motivator, and it can be removed after they pay what's owed. But I would only remove for an additional fee...or they can have someone else do it, for which they'll also have to pay for.

 

[Lettering by Carolyn]

So we still don’t know what type of sign it is, but Moze, I like your way. I was thinking I’d be taking off some of my vinyl or cover some in broad daylight during business hours.

 

[spectrum maine]

put on your invoice that "sign is property of () signs until all payments have been received & processed.() signs has the right to remove sign until final payment has been received.actuall only did this once, i cut the signs up into about 200pieces & left them in his driveway in a box.