laminate failure photos?

[Marlene]

anyone have any photos of what a cheap, substandard laminate on a digital print looks like? I looked online and can find nothing. what I am looking for is a photo of a sign that shows the brownish mess and such of a laminate that didn't do a great job of protecting the print. thanks

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Is this what you're looking for?

 

[Marlene]

perfect!!! thanks

 

[bigben]

Is this what you're looking for?

View attachment 129495

Damn! I've never saw that in 10+ years.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Damn! I've never saw that in 10+ years.

Neither had I! It turns out we got a bad batch of laminate from MACtac. There was virtually no UV protection and that sign was in the sun for most of the day. If I recall, that happened in about six months.

 

[Marlene]

the ones I've seen got replaced before I was able to snap a pix. they looked burned or rusted and at the top they were peeling off the substrate.

 

[humble sign co]

anyone have any photos of what a cheap, substandard laminate on a digital print looks like? I looked online and can find nothing. what I am looking for is a photo of a sign that shows the brownish mess and such of a laminate that didn't do a great job of protecting the print. thanks

We did't make this so can't say what laminate was used. Its about 5 years ago. I never could figure it out.

 

[bob]

While I have no photos of malfesant laminate, in this area at ~5,000' elevation the failures are legion. A quick drive around town will show many examples. I've had a few myself using Oracal 290 which is supposed to be a premium laminate. After 5-6 +- years a number of jobs laminated with 290 have browned out.

I no longer laminate anything unless the client throws a weapons grade temper tantrum. I clear coat everything with Clear Shield. It has far better UV protection. It's reasonably tough but not as tough as a vinyl laminate. Case in point is my own truck. ~7 years ago I covered the tailgate with a panel and put three panels on the hood. Same material, prints on 3M180mc metallic silver. The tailgate panel was laminated with Oracal 290 and the hood panels were clear coated with Clear Shield Original Formula [now Clear Shield Classic]. The tailgate started to deteriorate about 18 months ago to the point where I removed the panel as it was more of a condemnation than an advertisement. The hood looks just like the day I put it on.

 

[chester215]

Cheap Lam can also move around. This is a 4x8 after about a year of exposure.

 

[Marlene]

While I have no photos of malfesant laminate, in this area at ~5,000' elevation the failures are legion. A quick drive around town will show many examples. I've had a few myself using Oracal 290 which is supposed to be a premium laminate. After 5-6 +- years a number of jobs laminated with 290 have browned out.

I no longer laminate anything unless the client throws a weapons grade temper tantrum. I clear coat everything with Clear Shield. It has far better UV protection. It's reasonably tough but not as tough as a vinyl laminate. Case in point is my own truck. ~7 years ago I covered the tailgate with a panel and put three panels on the hood. Same material, prints on 3M180mc metallic silver. The tailgate panel was laminated with Oracal 290 and the hood panels were clear coated with Clear Shield Original Formula [now Clear Shield Classic]. The tailgate started to deteriorate about 18 months ago to the point where I removed the panel as it was more of a condemnation than an advertisement. The hood looks just like the day I put it on.

we have our prints done with an automotive grade UV clear coat that is srayed on and have signs out there that are years old and look great. we don't have a flatbed so we out source it. I am a big fan of the clear coat vs laminate.

 

[2B]

Here is an example saw the other day this gives you an idea of what the sign is supposed to be.

Needless to say I got an exasperated eye roll when I made a U turn to take pictures of the signs

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[ironchef]

I always thought the dark areas were from not waiting enough time for the solvents to outgas before laminating? I'm guessing from what I've read above it's just from cheap, non-uv laminates?

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[DerbyCitySignGuy]

I always thought the dark areas were from not waiting enough time for the solvents to outgas before laminating? I'm guessing from what I've read above it's just from cheap, non-uv laminates?

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Yes. The dark areas are UV damage. Not outgassing is a different beast altogether and causes different issues.

[Edit: I have heard that the evaporation of the solvents can react with the adhesives on the laminate and cause the same kind of damage. I'm not a chemist, so I can't say for sure, but that's just what I've been told.]

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Here is an example saw the other day this gives you an idea of what the sign is supposed to be.

Needless to say I got an exasperated eye roll when I made a U turn to take pictures of the signs

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Whew! Looks like several of those signs are in desperate need of replacement!

 

[2B]

Yes this entire shopping center sent my skin crawling with the designs, shoddy work and low grade materials

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[ironchef]

So what does it look like when you don't outgas?

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[bob]

So what does it look like when you don't outgas?

It looks pretty much the same as when you do. Outgassing is a myth the best use of which is to scare small children into going to bed.It's also a handy scapegoat on which to blame a lot of operator error.

 

[ironchef]

Lol

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[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Yes, definitely take Bob's word for it over engineers at companies like 3M.

One of the main things you'll notice from outgassing is adhesion issues.

 

[bob]

Yes, definitely take Bob's word for it over engineers at companies like 3M.

One of the main things you'll notice from outgassing is adhesion issues.

Ah the revealed word from the great white fathers at 3M. That settles it eh? Solvent dries via evaporation in minutes if not seconds. That being the the case, from whence comes the gas that scares people? Now then, once the ink has dried there remains certain structural changes in printed vinyl that tends to make it a bit more laterally unstable. In other words it can be a bit rubbery for a while. That has little or nothing to do with the evaporative drying of the ink.

My own experience is that there is little difference in dealing with a print straight out of the printer or letting it hang around for a while. The majority of the laminate failures being discussed here have to do with UV damage over time. What that might have to do with the legend of outgassing bog only knows.