Letters and Large Sign on Sheet Metal Building

[TinFoilHat]

What are your thoughts on my job setup? We have done these in the past but for smaller letters and wanted some opinions or options of what yall have done.

JOB 1
6mm Aluminum Composite CNC Cut Letters with Maroon Cast Vinyl Overlay
Total Size 420" x 103"
48" x 45" "Logo"
335" x 47" "BETAFENCE"
119" X 47" "USA"

I have a company installing these via Self tappers on the extruded metal ribs, and if any letters are hanging off too much, they will have a square tube to make up for the depth to screw to.

JOB 2
252" x 96" Digitally Printed and Laminated Decal Applied to 3mm ALC, Single Sided, No Hole Drilled, Straight Edge Corners
* Sign to be made up of the following panels
FIVE 48"Wide x 96" Tall Signs
ONE 12"wide x 96" Sign

I have a company installing these via Self tappers with the panels butted up to each other.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I'm trying to keep up...but why not do Gemini or stud mounted so you don't have visible fasteners.

 

[JBurton]

I'm trying to keep up...but why not do Gemini or stud mounted so you don't have visible fasteners.

I mean, you could still stud mount with some glued on pads or acrylic blocks, but acm will expand and contract so much that the letters are going to want to buckle regardless. At this size, I'd avoid plastic unless they're injection molded, and aluminum vs acm will be pretty dramatic cost difference at this size.
7 sheets acm marked up is $682 before any labor
7 sheets 1/8" aluminum is around $2,912

 

[TinFoilHat]

I'm trying to keep up...but why not do Gemini or stud mounted so you don't have visible fasteners.

Most customers do not want to pay the price point for the stud-mounted letters and would instead opt for paint-matched self-tappers on the raised ribs. I am curious, though, how I would secure stud-mounted letters on corrugated metal if I do not have access to the back side of the wall to attach a nut due to machines in the way and no path for a lift to be inside.

 

[TinFoilHat]

I mean, you could still stud mount with some glued on pads or acrylic blocks, but acm will expand and contract so much that the letters are going to want to buckle regardless. At this size, I'd avoid plastic unless they're injection molded, and aluminum vs acm will be pretty dramatic cost difference at this size.
7 sheets acm marked up is $682 before any labor
7 sheets 1/8" aluminum is around $2,912

Tell me about it lol. everyone wants the cheap option and do screwed ACM instead of stud AL.

I am

I have a lot of my ACM letters and cut out logos still going strong 4-5 years later like this one.

 

[Stacey K]

This is the method I've used on vinyl siding. It's easy to order and with the patterns they send it makes installation quick. Your method seems to work also, just depends if you want the labor of all the cutting and pattern making in house.

I assume you've done the math calculating your labor in-house vs. just placing an order and having a pattern already made? Maybe it's not too much off? I have no idea how long it takes to cut all these on a CNC.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Ahh, so those pads on the combo studs act at the spacer and tensioner when glued to the outside of the building to avoid going in the backside to nut it up?!

This is the method I've used on vinyl siding. It's easy to order and with the patterns they send it makes installation quick. Your method seems to work also, just depends if you want the labor of all the cutting and pattern making in house.

I assume you've done the math calculating your labor in-house vs. just placing an order and having a pattern already made? Maybe it's not too much off? I have no idea how long it takes to cut all these on a CNC.

 

[Gino]

If you're afraid to charge for doing things because the customer doesn't wanna pay it, why opt for a half-baked method ??

Your 3mm panels will be so wavy, it'll look very wonky when finished, unless you put up a frame..... and even then, it should be at least 6mm.

 

[TinFoilHat]

If you're afraid to charge for doing things because the customer doesn't wanna pay it, why opt for a half-baked method ??

Your 3mm panels will be so wavy, it'll look very wonky when finished, unless you put up a frame..... and even then, it should be at least 6mm.

In my opinion, it is better to get a job than not to get a job if disclaimers are made and signed. Plus this company rebrands like every 3 years at this rate lol.

Yeah, I think I will try to sell them the 6mm at least since it is not too much more, and the letters would be as sturdy as possible for ACM.

 

[Gino]

In my opinion, it is better to get a job than not to get a job if disclaimers are made and signed. Plus this company rebrands like every 3 years at this rate lol.

Yeah, I think I will try to sell them the 6mm at least since it is not too much more, and the letters would be as sturdy as possible for ACM.

In your opinion, you think it's better to have them sign a waiver, you've told them on something which will fail, then to refuse to do it half-a$$ ?? When you have disclaimers/waivers involved you are already admitting you'll be dong it for the money only and no one's safety. You are the professional and should always do things by code and professional craftsmanship........ not just to get a job and run. That's how reputations are created and destroyed.

 

[TinFoilHat]

In your opinion, you think it's better to have them sign a waiver, you've told them on something which will fail, then to refuse to do it half-a$$ ?? When you have disclaimers/waivers involved you are already admitting you'll be dong it for the money only and no one's safety. You are the professional and should always do things by code and professional craftsmanship........ not just to get a job and run. That's how reputations are created and destroyed.

Damn, Gino, I always see you flaming people's asses on here. Lol, now I am on the other end of the flame.
Yeah, you bring up a good point on the reputation plus code and I might need to reconsider the job when you say it like that.

Just in the past I have not had problems with the ACM on sheet metal and wanted some opinions.

Thanks!

 

[Stacey K]

Sometimes you just have to talk things through

Yes- the pads are adjustable.

The Gemini letters really are easy to install and order. Order the sample pack and start an account. I always order the pattern with my orders. The first time I ordered I put letters on the side of a community center. I'm pretty handy but I was really scared LOL My high school son and I did it by watching the videos and I probably posted on here for some tips. It was actually quite fun once we got started! I've since done others and also ordered several times for my customers and they installed themselves - no issues yet!

For real - you can probably take 20 minutes to place the order and there's no math involved on the site because they print you out a pattern, cuts down in installation time.

 

[TinFoilHat]

Sometimes you just have to talk things through

Yes- the pads are adjustable.

The Gemini letters really are easy to install and order. Order the sample pack and start an account. I always order the pattern with my orders. The first time I ordered I put letters on the side of a community center. I'm pretty handy but I was really scared LOL My high school son and I did it by watching the videos and I probably posted on here for some tips. It was actually quite fun once we got started! I've since done others and also ordered several times for my customers and they installed themselves - no issues yet!

For real - you can probably take 20 minutes to place the order and there's no math involved on the site because they print you out a pattern, cuts down in installation time.

Yeah, I have an account with them and have done some estimates from them, but I seem never to get jobs approved, lol. Thanks for the feed back.

 

[JBurton]

In your opinion, you think it's better to have them sign a waiver, you've told them on something which will fail, then to refuse to do it half-a$$ ??

Ok now look, screwing letters to a wall is ugly, yes, but does it enter the realm of improper and likely to truly fail and cause damage, not really. If the customer isn't keen on studs and solid aluminum, this is a fair option. Some days you have to stand up for the industry and best practices, but some days you really need to keep the lights on...

I am curious, though, how I would secure stud-mounted letters on corrugated metal if I do not have access to the back side of the wall to attach a nut due to machines in the way and no path for a lift to be inside.

Bend the studs away from each other enough that they'll snag the wall, then flex them together when you push them through the wall. This should hold until silicone or lexel sets up. Almost no signs that are stud mounted are truly bolted.