Masking full-coverage frosted vinyl....

[Moze]

Dusted Crystal vinyl was recently shipped to me from an out-of-state customer. It was for full coverage of exterior windows. Largest pieces were about 48"x48", then there were some smaller pieces about 30"x48". These are solid pieces with the exception of some small lettering on the largest pieces. Everything was shipped fully masked. I asked why they masked everything, rather than just around the letters and I was told 'that's how they do it' or 'that's how their installers do it'.....something to that effect.

The vinyl was shipped loose (not rolled tightly around a tube) and developed tunneling between the mask and the vinyl. There's no way it's going to lay smoothly.

If there are people out there that can lay it without any blemishes, I'd sure love to know their secret.

 

[bannertime]

We're not experts at it, but we use a bunch of Rapid Tac II. I always assumed the whole thing would need masked or else you'd get air lines around where the tape was. We masked this 57x70 jobs completely. I was surprised about how well it came out. One of the pieces had some wrinkles in the tape and that didn't have any effect.

Not sure about tunneling, but I think we'd start by cutting the tape at the tunnels to keep it from having too much effect on the material. If you're real frisky you could try to remove all the excess tape since it's mostly solid.

 

[Reveal1]

Seems like a disaster in the making. I would ship it back. We also use a ton of app fluid on glass and just peel the unmasked sheets off liner and float into place. Where their are letters or cutouts, we mask with paper tape just around those areas, lay panel down, wet the paper and let sit a minute and sort of roll the mask off of those areas.

 

[Moze]

Seems like a disaster in the making. I would ship it back. We also use a ton of app fluid on glass and just peel the unmasked sheets off liner and float into place. Where their are letters or cutouts, we mask with paper tape just around those areas, lay panel down, wet the paper and let sit a minute and sort of roll the mask off of those areas.

Exactly. This is precisely how I would do it.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Dusted crystal is on a plastic liner, I would try wetting the mask and removing it and remask the whole thing, for a fee of course

 

[Gino]

Dont mess with any cutting or removing tape. Just take a picture of what happened in transit and say, please advise.

If they talk to you, tell them to do it over and tell them how you want it done, this time. Otherwise, you're just gonna sit on it.

Had a similar situation about 2 years ago. I told them we wouldn't do a thing til they sent new material printed correctly. The rolls of inyl sat oat out place for about a year. Finally the store manager picked it up and said thanks for nothing. I went by the place a few weeks later. I think the people themselves did it. Wrinkle city, crooked and misaligned out the whazoo.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Ugh, I turn down all those dusted crystal / frosted installs... That stuff is hard enough to install "fresh".. let alone shipped from somewhere when God knows how long it's been sitting in a warehouse pre-masked somewhere.

 

[HulkSmash]

we just charge 5 bucks a square just for install for that garbage.. and im pretty sure.. actually pretty positive that stuff isn't rated for outdoors.

 

[kcollinsdesign]

I hate this stuff. One little speck of dust and the whole effect is ruined. I do what "Reveal 1" does, get the masking off asap using whatever technique needed, then slide the little counter pieces around until positioned correctly. If you let it sit, you run the risk of forming lines around the masking. If you mask the whole thing, you can't see the inevitable little specks of dust, and it is too late to lift up the vinyl and tweezer out the speck.

I was on a job once, putting 3' x 7' "etch-look" vinyl on glass, and the client insisted on watching. I'm soaking the window, lifting up vinyl to remove specks, sliding things around, etc., when the owner just told me to stop, and that he would just have to call somebody who knew what he was doing. I am not going to argue with a customer on the spot, so I just packed up and left. A few weeks later, we got the call back, and this time he left me alone. There was one fucking minute blemish in the middle of one panel where I ever so slightly scratched the vinyl lifting the speck out of the adhesive (I'm talking about < .1 mm), and I had to replace that one panel (my decision, not his). When the job was finished (way over budget), the other person he had come out (an experienced installer I knew) called me to ask how I did it. Lot's of application fluid, two experienced guys working super fast, vacuums and an anti-static gun. I'll never do it again; now I recommend individual panels with maybe a 2mm seperation between panels, or little 1" squares or whatever so I can go back and replace any pieces with trapped lint or dust particles.

Window tinting is much more forgiving and easier to install, and of course solid vinyl or even the courser "frosted" vinyl is no problem at all. That fine etch look stuff though scares me to death!

 

[Moze]

Appreciate the responses.

I've installed a lot of this stuff. A LOT. I have NEVER had it given to me with masking on it - only by this one company.


So here's the rest of the story....

The customer I'm installing this for is an out-of-state sign company. I've been installing for them here locally for about seven years. Zero issues until last year. In July, they sent vinyl for the windows to the left of the entrance of this same location. They sent it fully masked, rolled up, but not rolled around a tube, and it tunneled like crazy. I emailed pics from the site explaining the issue and likely outcome and I was told to proceed anyway. Installed the vinyl, it looked like crap, took completion pics, emailed them to the customer. Next day or so, they email back saying they're not happy with it. I tell them I can get it cut locally and NOT have it masked and it will look perfect. Received the go-ahead, did the job, it was perfect. Everybody's happy.


Fast forward to now...

A month ago or so, they email saying they now want the right side of the store done. I tell them I can have it cut locally again, but I offer to have them work directly with the vendor since I no longer do any sales and that would save them some money. They agreed, the vendor quoted it, the sign company said it was too high and they would just ship it down. Received the vinyl.......they sent it fully masked just like the first time and rolled up loosely in the box. I explain again that it's not going to turn out well, remind them of the string of emails from last year discussing this and resent the pictures. They say that's how their guys do it and to leave the site and they'll figure out what to do. I then receive an email asking to leave the vinyl at the store and they're going to have someone else locally install it. Apparently, whoever they're using said they could install it as-is without issue. I reiterate that I am willing to install as-is, but it wouldn't turn out well. I also said I could try to remove the masking and install, but there was a possibility of damaging/creasing the vinyl in the process. They say they're going to use this other company because they don't have it in the budget to ship more (unmasked) vinyl down.

So the vinyl is now at the store awaiting whatever magician this is that can install it as-is without any issues.

 

[Johnny Best]

If I remember right the 3M dusted is a cast film. like other said wet window and film with Rapid tac. I like to use a table or a helper and completely remove backing and wet adhesive side before installing weather it has transfer paper or not. I like not having transfer paper but in your case that is not an option. You will be able to get it down flat without bubbles and I use a Geekwrap squeegee with suede on edge. Also you can wet the transfer paper to try to get it off or wait and come back the next day. Be meticulous about cleaning the glass before install, I like Sprayway glass cleaner and non lint wipes. Good Luck.

 

[Moze]

I know how to install it. The problem is the tunneling. It won't install well as-is and I'm not going to sit there and peel the transfer tape off, slit the tunnels or anything else to try to 'make it work'. It sets a pretty undesirable precedent: you send jacked up material and I'll fix it for free. Nope.

They don't have any extra in the budget for my labor to do that and I'm certainly not working for free. Nor am I assuming the responsibility of the vinyl getting creased while trying to remove the masking.

 

[Johnny Best]

Sounds like you have made up your mind on not installing it as is. I don't see the problem as you do with the tunneling.
Have installed graphics with transfer tape tunneling and just worked it out. Just tried to help.

 

[Moze]

I appreciate the advice - I wasn't trying to sound unappreciative. But I've installed plenty of this and if someone can lay this perfectly smooth with the amount of tunneling this has, I would love to see it.

All I know is I'm beyond buried with work and I don't give my time away. I expect materials to arrive ready for install and if they're not, I expect to be compensated for my time fixing the issue. ie: I had a customer send me a bunch of ADA signs with no tape on them. Yes, I can fix it. No, I'm not going to fix it for free. And I don't think a GOOD customer would expect me to.

I'm not going to lay all of this vinyl out inside the store with customers walking around and try to get the tunneling out, for free. I'm certainly not going to do that outside when it's already pushing 100 degrees out, for free. If I were compensated for my time, sure, I'd give it a go...but it would be with the understanding that there are still no promises of it turning out correctly.

I offered to install as-is with the understanding that there are definitely going to be blemishes. The customer opted to reach out to others and apparently found someone who said they could do it. If they can, more power to them. And like I told my customer, I would sincerely love to see it done....because I don't see it remotely being possible.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

sounds like a job i did for farmers insurance