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Mathews Paint

cwb143

New Member
Was wondering if anyone had tips on improving the paint job quality on aluminum with Mathews paint?
They said to use catalyst for the hardener and mix reducer so it will shoot through the gun. Then they said
use reducer by it self to spray over the entire area to help smooth it all out. What are the ratio mixes
for reducer and paint and any other suggestions would be helpful. Thank you for any input on this.
 

equippaint

Active Member
Ask them for a tech sheet and it will have the proper mix ratios. I personally wouldn't spray reducer over a finished product and have honestly never heard that ever suggested before but I'm all ears. If you're blending for a repair then you can use a hot solvent to spray outside of the blend area to dissolve the dry edge to eliminate or minimize buffing but it doesn't sound like that's what you're doing.
 
I would echo the comments made by equippaint....have not sprayed reducer over the finished paint application but I'm very aware that my scope of knowledge is limited when it comes to sophisticated painting techniques. However, sophistication is not required with the MAP systems - the spec sheets are maybe a bit overwhelming at first glance for beginners but really it's nothing but detailed answers to every question you might have - which components are required at a minimum, the ratios to mix them, the dry times, cure times etc....as well as additives to dry faster or other options. Super simple and very user friendly. We've always stuck with the Matthews components for catalysts and reducers but I know some folks who substitute cheaper products. Again, we don't do that but the system is very typical of acrylic poly paint lines and other universal catalysts and reducers will work - just have to make sure you buy the compatible types.

Other than the product, the other element is using the right hvlp gun and messing with the settings until you achieve that right blend of paint, air and fan spray pattern for what you're working on. A nice clean gun and pouring the paint through a filter cone into your paint pot are huge insurance against frustration.

***Forgetting to state the obvious - all the tech sheets are on their website
 

equippaint

Active Member
The biggest thing is getting your gun dialed in right. Dont try to put it all on in 1 shot and adhere to the time between coats as stated on the tech sheet, generally its about 20 mins. You need that time to let some of the solvents flash so you dont trap it under a coat and end up with solvent pop. We usually set our guns around what the tech sheet says and then tweak it from there. The sheet may also tell you the recommended tip size and you really should stick to it. You can add a little extra reducer to the final coat too (in the paint not over it) which helps flatten it out but, its better to lay it on right to start and this wont recover a bad spray either. The mix ratios are important but not to the point that it will effect the outcome unless you royally screw it up. We don't measure it often, its a little of this and a little of that and go to town but we usually spray full gallons so the ratio of hardener and paint is always correct which is the most important.
You said that you wanted to improve the quality, what are you experiencing that that you need to improve on?
 

StarSign

New Member
When we use Mathews the ratio is usually 3:1:1 It gave us a pretty good finish and we are not painters........
 

signbrad

New Member
They said to use catalyst for the hardener and mix reducer so it will shoot through the gun. Then they said
use reducer by it self to spray over the entire area to help smooth it all out. What are the ratio mixes
for reducer and paint

The advice you were given does not sound like it came from a Matthews techie.

As StarSign stated, the mixing ratio is 3:1:1. The catalyst amount is more critical than the reducer amount. Matthews is not like some auto paints where you can add extra catalyst to speed dry time. Adding too much catalyst to Matthews will actually slow the cure time.
However, you may add small amounts of Matthews Accelerator that will dramatically speed the cure time, allowing you to install vinyl next day without problems.

I have experimented with producing faux marble finishes using Matthews paint, and I sprayed heavy saturations of reducer at the end to meld and blur the colors in an attempt to achieve some realism, but I don't do this on a regular basis. On normal jobs I paint by the book. If a paint film is not laying down smoothly, the problem could be caused by a number of things. Using the wrong temperature reducer, for example, is a common cause.
A good paint job with Matthews depends in part on correct tip size and air pressure, proper gun settings, using the right temperature reducer (there are three, plus a retarder), and, of course, the experience of the painter. All the above comments by others are useful.

The Matthews Training Manual is quite comprehensive and includes a pretty thorough troubleshooting section. You can download it from their website.
http://www.matthewspaint.com/getmed...034-4cb076f00f25/mpc-training-manual.pdf.aspx

The 2-day training courses hosted by Matthews are well worth your time, even if you are an experienced painter. And they feed you supper!

Brad in Kansas City
 

Jwalk

New Member
Never heard about Matthews paints. Something to check out.
I'm about to use mineral paint for the first time this summer.

Sent from my SGH-I257M using Tapatalk
 

cwb143

New Member
The biggest thing is getting your gun dialed in right. Dont try to put it all on in 1 shot and adhere to the time between coats as stated on the tech sheet, generally its about 20 mins. You need that time to let some of the solvents flash so you dont trap it under a coat and end up with solvent pop. We usually set our guns around what the tech sheet says and then tweak it from there. The sheet may also tell you the recommended tip size and you really should stick to it. You can add a little extra reducer to the final coat too (in the paint not over it) which helps flatten it out but, its better to lay it on right to start and this wont recover a bad spray either. The mix ratios are important but not to the point that it will effect the outcome unless you royally screw it up. We don't measure it often, its a little of this and a little of that and go to town but we usually spray full gallons so the ratio of hardener and paint is always correct which is the most important.
You said that you wanted to improve the quality, what are you experiencing that that you need to improve on?
When we sprayed Silver on raw aluminum it looks dry in some spots and wet. Not even and consistent. We don't have very expensive paint guns but other colors have came out better on other projects.
 

equippaint

Active Member
Spraying over raw alum shouldnt make a difference in the paint but you should really not do that unless its for something short term. Alum is terrible at holding paint, you can get away with it on steel (although bad practice) but painting right on alum will fail without proper prep and primer.
Being silver Id assume that its metallic and what youre seeing is uneven flake distribution and possibly some striping where it got loaded between passes? Try opening the paint and fan more so that you can get a good wide wet coat and overlap around 50%. It really needs to be wet enough so that the overspray on your passes will melt into the rest. You can try to do a couple back and forth lighter coats on the same spot to get it built up to be wet and also keep your metallic even. Swirl your cup around too from time to time to keep the metallic suspended otherwise it all sinks to the bottom. Metallic can be a little tricky. Base/Clear is easier because on the base you only have to worry about keeping the metallic even and not the gloss, then the clear you just need to get the gloss right.
Were spraying silver metallic right now on some airline stairs and took 2 quick videos for you.

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Billct2

Active Member
We use an etching primer on aluminum, then mix as per MAP's spec sheet with a medium reducer. It takes some practice to get a good coat and we generally sneak up on it with many light coats as has been said. The problems are usually in the gun setting or in the hand holding the gun...
As for spraying reducer over it when it's done, never heard of that and it sure doesn't sound right.
 

paul luszcz

New Member
and we use Matthews Aluminum Etching Primer. It works great, just like regular Matthews paint on other substrates. Ask your distributor for the part number.
 

signbrad

New Member
It's true that the metallics are trickier to spray than the solid colors. Uneven color and gloss, and the dreaded "tiger stripes" are problems that occur more often with metallics than with solids.

SPRAYING METALLICS
The goal is to lay down the paint (and the suspended metal flakes) as evenly as possible. Many things can prevent this.
Putting to much paint on in one pass can cause uneven color. And if the gun is held too close unevenness will happen. Also, a tip too large will cause the same problem. So will moving way too slow, or not having enough overlap on passes.

FULL TRIGGER
Matthews recommends two medium heavy passes with a flash time in between. This means full trigger for both passes, not half trigger. Many autobody painters are in the habit of applying a light "tack" coat followed by a heavy coat. Matthews is not engineered to be applied this way.
And the purpose of the flash time in between is to allow the first coat to set up somewhat before you spray the final coat. This is what allows the film thickness to build up properly. Matthews achieves its best durability when the correct film thickness is reached. At the Matthews training school, we were all given a small tool that measures wet film thickness and shown how to use it. We were also taught how to calculate the dry film thickness using the wet film thickness.
How long should the flash time be? Actually, it can vary depending on the weather and your reducer mix. If you touch the paint and it comes off on your glove, you haven't waited long enough.
When spraying, the first pass should pretty much cover the substrate without thin spots or obvious stripes. 50% overlap is a good rule, like euippaint said, though you can overlap more for metallics. Spray the second coat at right angles to the first. A good rule of thumb for gun distance is 8-10 inches. Spray parallel to the surface, without "fanning" the gun, as fanning causes uneven paint distribution. Generally, you want to spray so that each subsequent pass buries the overspray of the previous pass. On a panel that is flat on saw horses, start at the edge closest to you and walk forward. This is not a critical rule, and there are many times when overspray will unavoidably land on previously painted areas. But burying your overspray whenever possible is a "best practice," a good habit to develop. This means that on a vertical surface, start at the top.
Obviously, if you are painting a 4x10 panel lying flat, you can't reach far enough to make passes across the entire four feet of the panel's width. You will walk down one side, spraying a 24 or 30-inch swath and then walk over to the other side and do the same thing. When spraying the second side, the overspray from the ends of your passes will land on the side you painted first. This overspray should melt into the first side without a trace. If it doesn't, your mix is probably too fast. Use a slower reducer, or mix a slower reducer with the one you're using, or add retarder.

A FINAL LIGHTER COAT SOMETIMES WORKS

Spraying the second pass at right angles to the first pass, "crosshatching," can go a long way to eliminating unevenness in metallics. If I'm having a problem with unevenness, I will sometimes spray a third coat right after the second coat. I will back the gun away from the panel a little more than usual for this pass, and move a little slower than usual so that it goes on a little lighter. I let this finer coat settle down onto the wet second coat. I have achieved incredibly even metallics this way. But it only works if your paint is mixed on the slow side. I often add a little retarder when painting metallics for just this reason.

If you spray Matthews metallics be aware that some of the colors should be clear coated. If you are adding converter to your paint, you will be clear coating anyway. Matthews converter turns any Matthews color into a "base" coat that dries quicker than normal with not much gloss, which then must be cleared over for durability. Matthews converter creates, essentially, a base coat/clear coat system.
What is the advantage of converting colors to base coats? It allows you to spray and mask several colors in one day and then spray clear as the final coat at the end of the day. Theoretically, you are able to spray two, three or four colors, with taping in between, in one day (depending on conditions). Being able to install a two or three color job the next day, rather than waiting a day for each color to dry enough for taping, is obviously advantageous.
........................

In my post above I linked to the Matthews Training Manual. In the table of contents is listed a Troubleshooting Section which isn't there. I didn't realize until today that this online document has only half the manual.
The troubleshooting section that is included in my printed manual is on the website but in another section under a subheading entitled Company Literature.

Here is the link to the troubleshooting section:
http://www.matthewspaint.com/getmed...d5b9e28825/mpc-troubleshooting-guide.pdf.aspx

Brad
 

vincesigns

New Member
we have sent several of our team members to the Matthews School in Atlanta and they have all come back with alot more knowledge but also they have more confidence and are more likely to reach out to Matthews when they have a question. Highly recommend!
 
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