National Companies....(smh)

[Circleville Signs]

So, i get a call yesterday from a national company out of NY (I won't name names). They have a full window perf job they need installed at an Optometrist here in my town. I've been by the place, and these are every bit of 4'x8' windows. hey ask for my email so they can send me what exactly they need to do.

What they NEED on the front end is a full site survey (which they kindly gave me helpful tips such as "make sure you stand far enough away when taking pictures to get the entire window in", etc.) including pictures, drawings, etc. They mention that "IF" there is a charge for such a survey that it has to be approved in advance. HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA....."if" my a$$!

I respond to their email explaining our process for this type of survey, and let them know that our survey charge is $150, and that our installation charge is $x/sf. I also explain that we won't do anything until we have a signed PO, and that our payment terms are 10 days from the date on the invoice. If the job is over $500, we must have a 50% deposit to start.

I get an email back saying that they are greatly disspaointed that we would even charge for a site survey, but that if we must, the most they can pay is $75.



I replied that it appeared that our business models were not a good fit to work together. What a PITA!!

 

[ProWraps]

heh... mom always said you dont get rich by spending money!

 

[Rick]

heh... mom always said you dont get rich by spending money!

That was after dad said "you have to spend money to make money"... I hate it when mom is right!

 

[Rick]

So, i get a call yesterday from a national company out of NY (I won't name names). They have a full window perf job they need installed at an Optometrist here in my town. I've been by the place, and these are every bit of 4'x8' windows. hey ask for my email so they can send me what exactly they need to do.

What they NEED on the front end is a full site survey (which they kindly gave me helpful tips such as "make sure you stand far enough away when taking pictures to get the entire window in", etc.) including pictures, drawings, etc. They mention that "IF" there is a charge for such a survey that it has to be approved in advance. HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA....."if" my a$$!

I respond to their email explaining our process for this type of survey, and let them know that our survey charge is $150, and that our installation charge is $x/sf. I also explain that we won't do anything until we have a signed PO, and that our payment terms are 10 days from the date on the invoice. If the job is over $500, we must have a 50% deposit to start.

I get an email back saying that they are greatly disspaointed that we would even charge for a site survey, but that if we must, the most they can pay is $75.



I replied that it appeared that our business models were not a good fit to work together. What a PITA!!

I worked for a few shops that did that type of work and waiting for the big job that never came... you did the right thing, there is no reason to be another company's grunt.

 

[Gino]

We've all but stopped doing these. I guess we're hard to get along with, but in this 'screw the other guy first' mentality business world... I ain't gonna be the one getting screwed anymore.

I usually tell them right off the bat.... we get a $465.00 fee to do a complete site survey with pictures and measurements, however, they need to tell me how close I have to be. If we have to take retainers off to get it to the closest 1/8", then we get more.

I did one for a major chain some years ago and was being fair. Did the whole survey for $195.00 per site. Did three sites. 3 x $195. comes to $585. After everything was in and all the documents were distributed, we received a total check for.... $300. I eventually got all three locations and worked directly with the store owners, so that part was over the dam now. The stores showed me what I had to do and I saw where this original company had charged their own franchisees $595 per site. $1,785. for 3 sites which they paid $300.

No more. We get maybe a dozen or so of these to do and we get our money up front or no dice. We get at least 75 or more requests a year, but I don't bend our rules for hardly anyone these days. I hate things coming back and biting me where it hurts.

 

[Gino]

There is a way to insure you get the job.... or else. I just don't think I can print it out here. In fact, I don't know if I could put it in the 'Premium' section, either. It works almost all of the time, but it ain't nice.

 

[TwoNine]

Yeah - we were kind of 'put off' too by the National thing. We did 7 stores up here about a year ago and ended up having to hold their product in our shop to even get a partial payment of 20k from them. Then we battled for about 3-4 months just to get paid on work we had already done. The remainder was like 25k or something. It was a HUGE PITA.

They were a So. California/Texas firm that starts with "L"....DANGER, Will Robinson!!!!

 

[skyhigh]

Over the years, I've done a lot of sub work for sign companies & advertising groups from all over the USA. It can be a crap shoot sometimes. They all want to dictate what the job will pay. I have a couple steady customers (sign companies) that I deal with quite regularly, and price is negotiable.

In the last year, I'd say a good 15% of my business has been service work for other sign companies from other states.

In a word....BEWARE.

 

[skyhigh]

Yeah - we were kind of 'put off' too by the National thing. We did 7 stores up here about a year ago and ended up having to hold their product in our shop to even get a partial payment of 20k from them. Then we battled for about 3-4 months just to get paid on work we had already done. The remainder was like 25k or something. It was a HUGE PITA.

They were a So. California/Texas firm that starts with "L"....DANGER, Will Robinson!!!!

Wow.....a $45,000 job? Am i understanding you right.......they sent you the signs, and the install alone way 45k? That's pretty good for your first year in business.

 

[TwoNine]

Yeah - it was nice - we'd only been open for about 3 months at the time. The entire project was slated for over 100k - but we had problems EARLY with them and ended the deal after just 45 of it....T'was a fluke. IMO, I think that company looks for small, new companies to try and do their install work - they are less likely to fight back. And, if it hadn't have been for my wife and her constant phone calls with them - I honestly believe they would have sunk our business....We had a lot of money on the table when it all came crashing down.

Whew! Learned a lot though....The hard way...Like always!

Cheers,
-Chad

 

[Gino]

Very interesting..........

 

[HulkSmash]

One thing I've learned in this industry...is that large national companies do want you to install things at a lower cost...but I've also learned that most of the time the reward is greater then most. The connections you make through these jobs far surpass most. Keep the bigger picture in mind.

I've come to the conclusion that steadily moderately busy...is far better then.. 1 month SUPER busy..2 weeks slow and dead...can't survive in business that way.

 

[TwoNine]

I agree with what Coloradosigns is saying - and we did manage to salvage a couple of really good relationships out of that debacle. But at the same time - I've found that being slow for 2 weeks is acceptable - if the other option is going out of business.... Which I honestly believe is what would have happened if we didn't handle ourselves properly.

 

[ProWraps]

i think everyone gets manhandled by these companies in the begining. i know we sure did. majorly. lost alot of money and had a lot of headache.

now we just know how to deal with them. unfortunatley they are a necessary evil if you plan on doing that kind of work and trust me, they ARE NOT out for your best interest.

i honestly wonder if the CSR's get a set price to negotiate with and are paid based on how much they can shave of your price to put into their pocket.

but again, education is expensive and we paid for ours dearly in this situation. now, its old hat. i know what they are/will/want to do to my company, and i know when to hold em, and know when to fold em.

lets put it this way, there are some companies that i wouldn't pi$$ on if they were on fire. and some that i deal with regularly. its just like anything else.

 

[Gino]

Agreed Color.

I think if you can align yourself with good companies, it will always pay off. It's kinda wholesaling thing where you can count on their business and they can count on your professionalism in getting a job well done.

I'm talking about these high and mighty jokers coming in and dictating to you how much you can charge them and then make you wait for weeks or even months on end to get paid. Then, you're made to feel like they're doing you a favor by paying you in 60 or 90 days and you aren't allowed to charge a finance charge.

I imagine in a niche like yours.... doing so many wraps.... you have people coming to you from around the country and then YOU can pick and choose with whom you wanna do business. Now, that's a great spot to be in !! Luckily, we have some clients like that, but we don't put all our eggs into one basket. Some are seasonal, some are yearly and some are monthly, but repeat customers who are wholesaling from us are great.

Now, to use a dreaded word... we do.... do work with various brokers, but none of them with the likes of some of them around here. Not that this place breeds bad people or brokers, but some undesirables must be made aware of, and when the raise their little heads.... we chop them off and spit down their pie holes like some of these national companies being talked about.

You need to weed these kind of businesses out and learn who you can and cannot trust... especially today, when you rarely get to meet people face to face and do your work via the internet and rely on honest people on the other end.


*edit* Just saw your post, Pro..... you beat me to it !!

 

[HulkSmash]

Agreed Color.

I think if you can align yourself with good companies, it will always pay off. It's kinda wholesaling thing where you can count on their business and they can count on your professionalism in getting a job well done.

I'm talking about these high and mighty jokers coming in and dictating to you how much you can charge them and then make you wait for weeks or even months on end to get paid. Then, you're made to feel like they're doing you a favor by paying you in 60 or 90 days and you aren't allowed to charge a finance charge.

I imagine in a niche like yours.... doing so many wraps.... you have people coming to you from around the country and then YOU can pick and choose with whom you wanna do business. Now, that's a great spot to be in !! Luckily, we have some clients like that, but we don't put all our eggs into one basket. Some are seasonal, some are yearly and some are monthly, but repeat customers who are wholesaling from us are great.

Now, to use a dreaded word... we do.... do work with various brokers, but none of them with the likes of some of them around here. Not that this place breeds bad people or brokers, but some undesirables must be made aware of, and when the raise their little heads.... we chop them off and spit down their pie holes like some of these national companies being talked about.

You need to weed these kind of businesses out and learn who you can and cannot trust... especially today, when you rarely get to meet people face to face and do your work via the internet and rely on honest people on the other end.


*edit* Just saw your post, Pro..... you beat me to it !!

I agree. In no situation do you want to lose money. At times.. yes.. it's less...
If there's no money in the job.They can take a hike. We're in business to make money, just as they are.

 

[TwoNine]

Well said Gino. It is all about aligning your self with the GOOD ones. We still do work for 3 other national companies - all of which I would say are 'good'. But even still - we find ourselves at constant battle with the NTE's and all that sh....tuff. For instance - we just had a NTE 300 come through here to diagnose a neon that was out. Okay - no big deal. We went out to diagnose it. Found that a PK housing just needed to be replaced. Replaced it. Sent them the bill for 280 or something and then had to wait 60 days for that to come through - the reason: We didn't charge enough. Had to go through some other department for auditing to see why we charged 280 for this PK and 118 for another PK replacement we had done 6 months ago. (The difference was travel).

I think - more than anything - when it comes to National companies - make sure you have an above average type system (accounting) for watching who owes you what for what. These guys are always trying to 'slide one by us' it seems like. And if you're not vigilant and very thorough in note taking and job management - this is probably something better left to someone else IMO. Or else you no make good monies! LoL.....

 

[Circleville Signs]

You are all dead on point here. I can say with certainty that I have NEVER had a good experience with an out of area "National" company. DaNite Signs is right up the road from us (30 miles) and they have quite a few national accounts. I've had nothing but great experiences working with them, but I imagine that's because I know the owner pretty well.

Every other job that has come down the pike like this has been a massive PITA. We aren't a huge shop, and there's no way that I could carry $20k+ on jobs for more than a couple of weeks - and I don't even try. Someone wants to hassle me about $75 on a site survey that when all is said and done I'm gonna have 1.5-2 hours in? Go jump off a cliff.

 

[TwoNine]

....and a big cliff at that. Good for you, Gary. Sounds like a good job for your boy down the street with his yard signs? I forget his name on here....

 

[Circleville Signs]

....and a big cliff at that. Good for you, Gary. Sounds like a good job for your boy down the street with his yard signs? I forget his name on here....

ROFL!!!! H'es more like 90 miles down the road... But yeah - sounds about right. I'm guessing he wouldn't know how to do a proper site survey if you spotted him the laser level and a measuring tape though....lol.