Suggestions New Latex Printer. Either Mimaki or HP

[coastalsign]

Like the title says. Seeing which latex machine to go with. We have a HP L25500 already but are looking to sell it. It has some trouble with color consistency. Any insight you guys can give will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

 

[MikePro]

ISA expo is in vegas this year, in April. might be worth waiting til then to shop show discounts, and see all options available in operation.

 

[dypinc]

Like the title says. Seeing which latex machine to go with. We have a HP L25500 already but are looking to sell it. It has some trouble with color consistency. Any insight you guys can give will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Latex is more susceptible to environmental changes which will result in color consistency issues. New models in the same environment won't help much.

 

[BigfishDM]

Like the title says. Seeing which latex machine to go with. We have a HP L25500 already but are looking to sell it. It has some trouble with color consistency. Any insight you guys can give will be greatly appreciated. Thanks

This is not even a real choice, there might be 2-3 people in the whole country who have a Mimaki Latex machine. The support is horrible and the machine is slow, slow, slow! It does do white ink though, not many people actually utilize that so its kinda a waste. The cost of the Mimaki machine is much higher also, send a file to your local latex dealer and let them show you what the new models can do.

 

[coastalsign]

Thanks for the heads up. We can definitely wait for good pricing

 

[coastalsign]

Thanks for the info. Ill be reaching out to a dealer soon. Just wanted to see what you guys thought before hand.

This is not even a real choice, there might be 2-3 people in the whole country who have a Mimaki Latex machine. The support is horrible and the machine is slow, slow, slow! It does do white ink though, not many people actually utilize that so its kinda a waste. The cost of the Mimaki machine is much higher also, send a file to your local latex dealer and let them show you what the new models can do.

 

[Correct Color]

Listen to Bigfish. He's giving you the straight scoop.

In all my travels, I've seen exactly one Mimaki Latex printer... in a prison in Oklahoma.

When I walked in there, they were running the thing at 40 -- 40! -- pass.

The entire time I was working with the thing, I kept hearing Morgan Freeman's voice in my head saying "Prison time is s-l-o-w time."

I got it to 24 pass, but that's the very best it could do.

Now, me, I'd caution you to stay away from latex at all if you're worried about color consistency. The 360 is pretty notorious for color inconsistency issues and I haven't seen any improvements that would lead me to believe newer versions have gotten any better.

But, again, like Bigfish said, the choice you're presenting is not a choice at all.

 

[dypinc]

The 360 is pretty notorious for color inconsistency issues and I haven't seen any improvements that would lead me to believe newer versions have gotten any better.

I would advise you to read through the threads on here. Especially the ones about color consistency.

There have been some improvement via firmware updates. As I mentioned before you need to have constant humidity and temperature environment, not unlike what would be required for digital toner based presses. So that also means you need to keep on top of calibration/linearization requirements. Also the issue of only one lc/lm printhead (which was not an issue with the L25500) and how to minimize potential ink starvation, and be aware that you will have less nozzle redundancy than you would if you had two printheads.

After figuring out the nuances of the L360 I would say I am now quite happy with the color consistency.

 

[GSG Mark]

This is the reason that the built in i1 was added to the L360. The L365, 560, and 570 will all have significant improvements in color consistency due to this added feature. Also bear in mind a good bit of color inconsistency (on older units) was due to the user changeable printheads being in various states from brand new to 3 months old (i.e. as they age the color shifts) The 365,560,and 570 can correct that with automated color calibrations.

 

[printhog]

This is the reason that the built in i1 was added to the L360. The L365, 560, and 570 will all have significant improvements in color consistency due to this added feature. Also bear in mind a good bit of color inconsistency (on older units) was due to the user changeable printheads being in various states from brand new to 3 months old (i.e. as they age the color shifts) The 365,560,and 570 can correct that with automated color calibrations.

@GSG Mark. Minor correction.. The spectro wasnt added later. It was original to the the z6100 models that HP based their entire latex line off of. Mine had it. The Z6100 is the forerunner of the entire HP latex family. Add heaters and change inks and a Z6100 is latex capable..

The z6100s were difficult for color consistency with dye based inks even with the colorimeter.

My guess is that the disposable heads and bubble jet technology isn't capable of the rigors of industrial print.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[dypinc]

The z6100s were difficult for color consistency with dye based inks even with the colorimeter.

My guess is that the disposable heads and bubble jet technology isn't capable of the rigors of industrial print.

Most likely you are correct about the HP printheads. But Canon has a very consistent thermal printhead. But at this point if you want to go latex the HPs really your only option.

 

[CanuckSigns]

If you are set on latex, go HP, there is no other option, mamiki latex is pretty much non existent, so parts and service would be hard to get.

But if you are not sold on latex, take a look at some of the eco solvent machines, we got a new Roland VG 640 about 6 months ago and it has been pretty awesome, the colours with the new tru vis ink are very vibrant, I haven't noticed any smell, and prints are ready to laminate after an hour, also I only need 1 standard 110 volt outlet instead of 2 dedicated 220v outlets.

 

[printhog]

If you are set on latex, go HP, there is no other option, mamiki latex is pretty much non existent, so parts and service would be hard to get.

But if you are not sold on latex, take a look at some of the eco solvent machines, we got a new Roland VG 640 about 6 months ago and it has been pretty awesome, the colours with the new tru vis ink are very vibrant, I haven't noticed any smell, and prints are ready to laminate after an hour, also I only need 1 standard 110 volt outlet instead of 2 dedicated 220v outlets.

Question about "laminating within an hour".. are you basing that on your nose and a dry to touch surface, or on some manufacturer supplied data? To my knowledge none of the manufacturers of print substrates would advise this on any solvent prints except latex and uv cure.

If by nose and touch... Eco solvent inks use a low odor solvent. Usually a glycol. The dry time on this is terribly slow. Even with a post print dryer it takes hours for the solvent to evaporate. On true solvent prints you can't laminate for 6 hours and that's really "hot" MEK based ink. On traditional EcoSol the ink doesn't dry for up to 20 days.. latex polymerizes into a solid film so it really is more like a cure than drying.

Laminating just seals any solvents in. If you laminate any solvent print too early you risk long term leaching of colors into the adhesive layers. Very very bad for wraps. It will literally stain the vehicles paint job in as little as two years and cause premature laminate failure.



Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[CanuckSigns]

Question about "laminating within an hour".. are you basing that on your nose and a dry to touch surface, or on some manufacturer supplied data? To my knowledge none of the manufacturers of print substrates would advise this on any solvent prints except latex and uv cure.

If by nose and touch... Eco solvent inks use a low odor solvent. Usually a glycol. The dry time on this is terribly slow. Even with a post print dryer it takes hours for the solvent to evaporate. On true solvent prints you can't laminate for 6 hours and that's really "hot" MEK based ink. On traditional EcoSol the ink doesn't dry for up to 20 days.. latex polymerizes into a solid film so it really is more like a cure than drying.

Laminating just seals any solvents in. If you laminate any solvent print too early you risk long term leaching of colors into the adhesive layers. Very very bad for wraps. It will literally stain the vehicles paint job in as little as two years and cause premature laminate failure.



Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

I was told this by the tech who installed the printer, and I believe it, on our old Roland when a print accendently touched ink to ink it almost always caused ink to pull off, now it doesn't happen at all, even on heavy coverage.

We don't do wraps so I can't comment on that, but I've had no issues so far.

 

[printhog]

I was told this by the tech who installed the printer, and I believe it, on our old Roland when a print accendently touched ink to ink it almost always caused ink to pull off, now it doesn't happen at all, even on heavy coverage.

We don't do wraps so I can't comment on that, but I've had no issues so far.

I would not trust the printer tech to know much about inks and media. Follow the guidelines from the vinyl manufacturer. Dry to touch isn't the same as fully dried when it comes to eco solvent inks.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[coastalsign]

Thank you for the input everyone. We've been very happy with the L25500 since we switched to latex. Staying with HP seems the way to go for us. We're currently looking at the 365 and 560 models.

 

[dypinc]

Thank you for the input everyone. We've been very happy with the L25500 since we switched to latex. Staying with HP seems the way to go for us. We're currently looking at the 365 and 560 models.

It would be nice to have feedback on here about the difference in the ink density settings and how that effect output on the 560 compared to the 360/365. What benefit the two optimizer pens printheads are, etc.

 

[Molenbeek]

Advantage Sign & Graphic Solutions is hosting an HP Latex webinar on the 27th of January that goes over all the differences of the units, as well as qualifies you for discounts on purchasing the new ones. I definitely recommend signing up and attending.

ADVANTAGE SIGN AND GRAPHIC SOLUTIONS WebEx Enterprise Site

 

[jfiscus]

If you are set on Latex, definitely go with the HP model. The Mimaki is a flop.
And this is coming from a shop that runs a Mimaki solvent printer and got rid of their HP Latex printer.

 

[jayhawksigns]

Thank you for the input everyone. We've been very happy with the L25500 since we switched to latex. Staying with HP seems the way to go for us. We're currently looking at the 365 and 560 models.

We are in the same boat at the moment. Is it better to spend the extra on the 560 or other equipment in the shop??? Am liking the media loading on the 560.