Discussion New machine or repair old

[Graphic Extremes]

OK guys, I have a Roland XR-640 the recently had a really bad head strike that messed up the two heads. This machine has been discontinued a few years ago and I am being told by my local dealer that parts only have to be available for about another year, then machine will not be able to be repaired. The cost to replace the heads with new damper and the two cap tops with labor is about $7000.00.

What I am wondering if if it was you, would you repair the machine or buy a new machine as 7k is a good down payment on the new machine. I am looking at the Epson 80600 with bulk in supply..

I am torn on what to do hear because another head strike and I'm out the 7k and just threw away the money. By the way this is the third head strike I have had while owning this machine, and can't figure out why I am having the head strike. Machine out of the blue just will just bunch up the vinyl and them that's all she wrote.

Thanks for any help.

 

[signheremd]

Seems like the XR-640 cost about 16k new some years ago. Hard to justify putting that much into it. That said, we had a bad head strike a little over 4 years ago and replaced the heads. Machine is running great still. Head strike is caused by material tunneling as it feeds - often unequal wear on the outside rubber rollers is a great contributor. To avoid head strikes, you can manage the machine while it runs: use only the outside rollers to clamp, pull and maintain slack on the feed roll, manually take up printed vinyl.

The 7k would be a good down payment on a new machine, but 7k into this machine could net you continued profits. It really comes down to your current workloads/volume - can they justify the expense of a new machine? If 2023 has the same volume does the monthly payment still make sense? The new machine runs around 24-28K. There is currently an Epson $3000 off promotion, so with that $7000 you could get into one for about 14-18K.

I think you know that you are feeling the new machine is the wiser choice. But whichever choice you make, don't lose sleep over it and don't let yourself second guess.

 

[garyroy]

It's weird but I've had 20 head strikes over the years with my VersaCamm's with a vinyl bunch up. Never once did it damage the head. A few times it threw off the alignment of the black head a bit but that could be adjusted pretty easily. I agree on the pinch rollers, we only run the 2 outside ones unless we have laminated a piece of vinyl and are sending it back for cutting.
Are you using the media clamps on the sides?, that should prevent some unevenness on the media edges. How about lifting your head height, and maybe set the run speed to 600 instead of full speed.

I don't know how much longer the Roland VF2-640 will be available, but it is a cut only machine. Very fast. Super sweet prints. I had the VersaArt which was the predecessor.
Do you need print and cut on the same machine? If not you could probably pick one up from your dealer for under $15K brand spanking new.

 

[White Haus]

OK guys, I have a Roland XR-640 the recently had a really bad head strike that messed up the two heads. This machine has been discontinued a few years ago and I am being told by my local dealer that parts only have to be available for about another year, then machine will not be able to be repaired. The cost to replace the heads with new damper and the two cap tops with labor is about $7000.00.

What I am wondering if if it was you, would you repair the machine or buy a new machine as 7k is a good down payment on the new machine. I am looking at the Epson 80600 with bulk in supply..

I am torn on what to do hear because another head strike and I'm out the 7k and just threw away the money. By the way this is the third head strike I have had while owning this machine, and can't figure out why I am having the head strike. Machine out of the blue just will just bunch up the vinyl and them that's all she wrote.

Thanks for any help.

We just ran into a similar situation, both heads had missing nozzles and had to be replaced (not from headstrikes, more old age) I feel like we paid about $6k CDN - sounds like your dealer's price is a little steep. (But that's aside the fact)

I also went through the same thought process as you and considered buying an Epson S60600L. Got a really good quote from a local dealer but delivery time was too long for us to wait.

I'm happy we got this thing fixed but I've also seen some for sale here for roughly the same price in perfect condition.

Edited to add: Here is the one I saw RIGHT after we spent all that money on new heads: https://www.signs101.com/threads/roland-soljet-pro4-xr640-free-s-h.169977/

 

[signsnyc]

Nothing is like a new machine. It all depends on the budget. If I have an extra budget, I will go for a new machine, as you become tension-free for a few years with the new machine. And yes, I have a limited budget, then in this scenario, repairing the old one seems to be the wise decision. It's just my thought, a lot of people may disagree with me.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I think there is a fairly well known issue with the roland printers where the take up isn't plum with the printer, which causes the material to wonder on the take up,which after a while causes head strikes

 

[Notarealsignguy]

If you can change the head yourself and order through your dealer or someone like solventinkjet then it should be much cheaper and worthwhile. $7k not so much.

 

[White Haus]

I think there is a fairly well known issue with the roland printers where the take up isn't plum with the printer, which causes the material to wonder on the take up,which after a while causes head strikes

Definitely. I don't trust that thing to print for more than 30 mins without checking on it.

Print/cut into a box - full roll no problem.

Print onto take-up - constant buckling and eventually head strikes.

 

[garyroy]

Search this forum for feedback on the company that is selling that Roland 640, just sayin.

 

[Lighthouse Promotion]

I was in the same predicament with my Mimaki CJV 150. Opted for print head replacement, then fuses, then circuit boards, $5000 later nothing worked, still was billed because new print head was probably fried, and ended up buying new HP latex printer. Could have saved myself the $5000 if I went with new machine in the first place. Expensive lesson but went for the less expensive replacement part instead of new machine.

 

[Joseph44708]

You are definitely doing something wrong.
I have Never had a head strike.
I run multiple rolls of vinyl and magnet daily.
I run two xr640 printers all day long and at the end of the day, I put another roll of vinyl on each one correctly and send 100 ft of printing through each one over night with no problems except when they run out of ink.
When loading material to be printed make sure it is straight and taught, and then when tapping to take up roll do the same.

 

[Graphic Extremes]

Normally I don't have an issue printing, I have had this machine since they started making it. Serial number says it's the fourth machine made since production started. The machine has had some small quirks but over all it has been a good machine.

I could change all the part, that's not an issue. Just can't find actual Rolland heads for the machine. There are heads available that I could use, but the are coded for other machines that use the same head. So you can't set the head rank in the machine. I don't know how important that setting is, but I was told it should be set when changing the head.

What I am afraid of is that they come to put new heads and dampers in and then say that there are other problems like a board being bad or something else.. One time I had a tech come out to change heads, for some reason he the board was bad also. Print heads were firing and just missing nozzles. Just nervous that I put 7K into the machine and they can't fix the machine

 

[unmateria]

Both heads destroyed in a head strike???? 7k???? Wow...
Just for curiosity, can u send a complete printhead test?

About strikes... Usually bad temperature (much temp), vinyl stored in a very different room temperature, dirty or bad or uneven vacuum "things" (sorry for my english lol), a stucked pinch roller, or a bad calibrated enroller. But well, most common, the first one.

 

[Graphic Extremes]

Here is a print test and parts break down on cost.

2 heads $4272.00
8 dampers $863.00
2 Cap Tops $178.00
2 hours drive time $250.00
5 hours service time $1250.00
total before tax $6813.00
tax $546.00
total $7359.00

This is what they want to charge me and I can not find any place to buy genuine Roland print heads. I know I can change these by myself easily in less than 2 hours. they did say that if it doesn't take as long as they think they will refund the part of the service price.

This is an eight color machine with white and silver.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Here is a print test and parts break down on cost.

2 heads $4272.00
8 dampers $863.00
2 Cap Tops $178.00
2 hours drive time $250.00
5 hours service time $1250.00
total before tax $6813.00
tax $546.00
total $7359.00

This is what they want to charge me and I can not find any place to buy genuine Roland print heads. I know I can change these by myself easily in less than 2 hours. they did say that if it doesn't take as long as they think they will refund the part of the service price.

This is an eight color machine with white and silver.

$250 per hour service is on the high end for service from what I've seen but you are also in New York so that may have something to do with it. In general I see $150 - $200 per hour from the techs I've worked with around the country. It also looks like they quoted all OEM parts which is normal especially for a dealer tech. That's the price you pay for a warranty unfortunately. You could save around $2k - $3k by going with alternative parts but then you would have to find an independent tech or do it yourself which negates any warranty. So there's definitely a trade off between the options.

 

[jfiscus]

Heads strikes on vinyl should not be able to cause permanent head damage after just a few swipes. Sure, it can cause clogged nozzles but usually it takes the head hitting an edge clamp or something in the capping station to cause significant permanent damage. Look at the travel path of your print head and see what all is in line with the damage that your head could have possibly connected with.

We used to have Mimaki JV3 printers here that got damaged heads every year (from what I was told, I think we put the printer tech's kids through college, lol) until I took a look at the travel path after a head strike and realized that the capping station had button-head screws (from the factory/Mimaki) and I swapped them out with flush head screws. Never again did we have a head strike/damage until we sold the printers.
Edit: I guess that was back in 2014 - https://www.signs101.com/threads/screws-scratching-heads.118296/

 

[JamesLam]

Time for new!

As frugal as I try to be I can't see holding onto the printer.

Plus with Printing United coming up and other shows there are show deals to be had. And don't be afraid to negotiate.

 

[rjssigns]

Buy a new rig. You gain the latest tech developed in the time span you've owned your current printer. I was considering fixing my Roland then realized I'd still have a refurbished old printer that could nickel and dime me.
Took the money earmarked for repair, sold the old printer and bought a new Mutoh. Happy happy. Business increased and there was no way the old rig could keep up with the printing, unless I wanted to work 12 hours a day.

 

[garyroy]

Yeah and some of the Mutoh deals out right now are fantastic, check out their website (we have Rolands)

BTW, I had an independent tech replace 3 print heads on a used VP540 machine. He charged me about $1000/head with installation.
Your quote for $4272 for 2 heads, ouch, sounds like gouging to me.
I just ordered 16 dampers for our Roland from SolventInkJet, I think they were about $10 each.
Your guy wants $863 ?? Whattup??
Original Roland Cap Tops for the VP540 were $40 each from AllSquare in SC.
The 5 hours service time sounds close, kind of, but an additional $1250 on those crazy parts prices?
I'd be looking around for an independent tech or another dealer or another brand of machine. Just sayin'

 

[chris20630]

Buy a new rig. You gain the latest tech developed in the time span you've owned your current printer. I was considering fixing my Roland then realized I'd still have a refurbished old printer that could nickel and dime me.
Took the money earmarked for repair, sold the old printer and bought a new Mutoh. Happy happy. Business increased and there was no way the old rig could keep up with the printing, unless I wanted to work 12 hours a day.

Which Mutoh makes you happy. xpertjet or valuejet? I don't read much good things about Xpertjet here. I want to update my old Valuejet and tend to Epson sc