signsvisual
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An answer to that with any relevance to your situation would demand having information about your local cost of living, local shop rates, number of competitors, etc.
Unless the job is located next door to your shop, I can't see how ANY installation would take just 30 minutes. There is time needed to assemble one's tools, load them in the truck, drive to and from the location, tape and level the pattern, drills the holes, clean up the dust from the sheetrock, thread the studs into the back of the letters and plaque, inject the LEXEL, silicone or adhesive of choice into the holes, push the letters into the holes, clean up, etc.
Let's just assume the installation is a 15 minute drive from your shop. I'd estimate the total install including all those factors I described at an hour total for the plaque and two hours for the letters at your shop rate. Ours would be $120 per hour for the outside installer we normally use, but we never use him for such a simple job that we can do ourselves.
Hell, my wife routinely and business partner goes and does installs like that and far harder by herself.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
I mostly install to the trade. My minimum on that 30 min job would be $250 if it's in town (payment upfront if I've never worked with you)
Probably $375 on the acrylic letters.
Probably $375 on the acrylic letters.
Wow! On another thread you stated that you charge $5.75 per square foot for banners but suddenly your shop rate jumps to over $200 per hour including travel time for an interior installation into a material you could almost drill with a punch and a hammer?
For the sake of any of us who work with but a couple different hourly rates depending on difficulty, height or whether a bucket truck is needed, can you please help me wrap my head around how you arrived at that hourly rate?
We're in one of the most expensive counties in one of the most states in the country to operate and our outside installer charges $125 per hour for projects where he actually uses his bucket truck.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
You have an installer with a bucket that would go to a 1 hour job for $125? Sounds like a deal Timmy boy.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Well, you're installer is evidently not on your payroll and therefore must either be desperate or nuts, but regardless of which category he falls in, you are clearly taking advantage of him. That doesn't seem to fit what you say about yourself, toadster. Hmmm...........
I didn't say that. I said his hourly rate is $125, there is a difference. IF our installer was doing another job near a site that we just needed a couple of faces slid into a cabinet and it only took an hour, he would only charge us his normal hourly rate.
I also stated in a separate post that my wife and business partner with no experience before we bought our shop four years ago handles no brainer installs like the one described here and far worse by herself and in a very reasonable amount of time.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Nice cherry pick.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
The reason I have a minimum on small jobs...
- The company may be underestimating that "30 min job"
- What happens when I hit traffic to that 30 min job?
- When I get there, do I have to wait another 30 mins for the staff to accommodate me?
- Do I have to fight for a parking spot?
- What happens when the plans I have differ from what is in the field? And I call to find out what to do and the project manager is out to lunch?
- What happens if you say you want to install it next week and next week rolls around and you tell me it will be another two weeks, and then three weeks later UPS randomly drops of the signs and you ask me to get them up tomorrow?
- What if you say the install needs to be at 10am on Wednesday? If I don't have a two or three hour job before that do I sit around waiting to do your $125 job?
- Who pays for the time that I have to sit on the phone with you discussing the project, or the time it takes to invoice you and process the payment and pay my taxes on it?
- What about my insurance costs and vehicle costs?
- What about my OPPORTUNITY COSTS of having to deal with a small order and not working on a larger one?
I am a well-insured , experienced installer with a constant full schedule. My project managers tell me, of all the sign companies they get to deal with, I am among the top they ever have the pleasure to work with. No I am not the cheapest, but my clients are more then happy when they have a project comes up in my territory.
- The company may be underestimating that "30 min job"
- What happens when I hit traffic to that 30 min job?
- When I get there, do I have to wait another 30 mins for the staff to accommodate me?
- Do I have to fight for a parking spot?
- What happens when the plans I have differ from what is in the field? And I call to find out what to do and the project manager is out to lunch?
- What happens if you say you want to install it next week and next week rolls around and you tell me it will be another two weeks, and then three weeks later UPS randomly drops of the signs and you ask me to get them up tomorrow?
- What if you say the install needs to be at 10am on Wednesday? If I don't have a two or three hour job before that do I sit around waiting to do your $125 job?
- Who pays for the time that I have to sit on the phone with you discussing the project, or the time it takes to invoice you and process the payment and pay my taxes on it?
- What about my insurance costs and vehicle costs?
- What about my OPPORTUNITY COSTS of having to deal with a small order and not working on a larger one?
I am a well-insured , experienced installer with a constant full schedule. My project managers tell me, of all the sign companies they get to deal with, I am among the top they ever have the pleasure to work with. No I am not the cheapest, but my clients are more then happy when they have a project comes up in my territory.
That is a boatload of rationalizations and "what ifs" just to justify what appears to be an exorbitant rate compared to your local cost of living and the specs of the OP's original criteria. Remember him or her? They actually are your client on this job.
Nobody is questioning your qualifications or professionalism, just your consistency in pricing based on your local cost of living. Nobody is forcing your always busy shop to take on a project like this either.
We're also assuming that the installation of the 10x 8" letters are part of this project, so you would installing those while there as well. If that is the case, according to your pricing you've stated, you're suddenly up to $625 for what this 40 year sign veteran could easily install in about 2-2.5 hours total unless the location is more than 15 minutes away and we hit some huge unexpected delay.
How about we just stick to the info that the OP asked about?
Simple plaque with four studs at what we can assume is inside at ground level that the OP, ( your client ) has worked the details out about. I know when we engage our installers, we've worked out everything in advance including with our client. We also give our installer ample notice, all the info needed and great leeway to fit a small job like this into his schedule and on his timeframe. We tell our clients that unless they want to pay extra, they are expected be ready, cooperative and accommodating to the installer.
Is labor taxed in your state? Your vehicle and insurance rates are built into your hourly rate. Whether our letters or sign components are made in house or ordered from someone like Gemini, we know EXACTLY when they will be produced and shipped. It's called staying on top of project management. All good professionals do it.
Are you really going to go there on the OP underestimating the time of an interior installation of a single 12"x18" four stud plaque mounted into a sheetrock wall at ground level?
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
It is EXTREMELY rare to deal with a project manager as you described. Most of the time there are more then one involved, they are dealing with 100s of projects, manufacturing may not even be at their location, most of the time the local client has no idea we are even coming.
I'm not complaining, because I know what to expect and price accordingly.
If OP was to do both those at the same location, same time...Id give a discount.
All inaccurate assumptions and judgements aside, I don't set his prices, he does. If thats the hourly rate he has established for himself how does that have anything to do with us "taking advantage" of him? I guarantee you that he's plenty busy, fully licensed and insured and we typically have to wait up to two weeks or longer to get things requiring his help to be installed.
Keep your personal attacks to yourself or they will be reported in every instance.
This job is for another sign company, not some preoccupied project manager at a construction company juggling a ton of other projects. Isn't your relationship with other colleagues one of mutual respect, cooperation and appreciation for what each other does for the other?
Either way, we've passed the point of offering anything helpful to the OP so I'll take my leave and let you get out there and make all that easy cash. LOL
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
You do know sign companies have project managers dont you?
Im sure if I answered $125, Id be accused of bottom feeding.
I have warts all over my hands now....Im done with you.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
You should know, from what you tell us about fair and decent pricing that a man in a bucket truck should get more than a buck and a quarter an hour. You sir, are taking advantage of this guy. If he's that busy, it must be because he's so cheap.
That was no personal attack, but if you wanna go around playing tattle-tale all the time, be mu guest. Remember, the door swings both ways and thanks again for derailing this thread with all of your fears and baloney.
No, really? I've never dealt with a fellow project manager in all my 40 years of doing this silly trade.
Nobody has accused you of anything except inconsistency. On another thread you quoted Wichita Falls, TX adjusted prices for banners, but then jumped to New York City pricing for drilling some holes inside on sheetrock wall and installing a plaque and ten 8" tall acrylic letters.
If you had answered with a reasonable amount for what appears to be a very simple, easy to execute, inside job, we'd not have gone back and forth like this.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Whats reasonable to you is not reasonable to me.
Right. Here we consider $5.75 per square foot for banners unreasonably low given our cost of living and doing business.
If $200 plus per hour for your shop rate is both your normal going rate in Wichita Falls, TX and you command it on a regular basis, then all I can do is congratulate you on building what must be a very successful business.