New Monitor

[Colin]

I'm going to get a new (bigger) monitor, and have decided on an IPS type, at 24", and the 1920x1200 (16:10) aspect ratio. The offerings from Dell, HP, Asus etc all seem pretty close, but now I'm faced with the decision on whether to go with an sRGB model or a Wide Gamut (Adobe RGB) model.

For example, the Dell U2410 is W/G, and the U2412M is sRGB.

I'll be using this for all my sign & printing work, as well as my own photography, and, well, everything. I have a new Win7 Pro 16 bit computer, and Adobe CS 5.5 (Photoshop & Illy) if that makes any difference. I've read that going W/G can be a constant color management headache.

Insight?

 

[choucove]

The big difference between the original Dell U2410 and the newer Dell 2412M is that the original is an H-IPS panel that is a full 8-bit display while the newer display is e-IPS which is only a 6-bit display. This means that in general the U2410 will be a higher quality truer color image but honestly the fractional tiny difference between the two panels wouldn't hardly be noticeable, you'd probably be pleased with either!

Toms Hardware Reviews

 

[OldPaint]

VIZIO 26" 1080p Television........$278.00. i got 1 and i love it...!!!!!!

 

[WildWestDesigns]

VIZIO 26" 1080p Television........$278.00. i got 1 and i love it...!!!!!!

Differences between a TV and a true monitor are clearly noticeable, especially if you have them side by side. I have also gotten a headache from using a TV as a monitor for things other then watching DVDs or streaming Netflix on my computer.

 

[OldPaint]

the tv is much clearer.................this tv is a 20,000 to 1 dynamic........which is very high color/black range.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=16002387&findingMethod=rr#ProductDetail then look at specifacations

 

[WildWestDesigns]

the tv is much clearer.................this tv is a 20,000 to 1 dynamic........which is very high color/black range.

I have yet to have a TV render better then a monitor for this type of work with everything being equal. It just renders slightly differently. It would be like getting a video card for a workstation versus one that's devoted to gaming. It renders the graphics differently and has different needs to perform that rendering.

 

[rjssigns]

Could always get a Mac display.:Big Laugh S-IPS, LED backlight and 2560x1440 res. I know they are expensive, but they are worth a look just as a reference point. I have a 24"iMac and got to use a 27". The latest 27" display made mine look like poop and they are only a generation apart. Time to upgrade.

 

[Colin]

The big difference between the original Dell U2410 and the newer Dell 2412M is that the original is an H-IPS panel that is a full 8-bit display while the newer display is e-IPS which is only a 6-bit display. This means that in general the U2410 will be a higher quality truer color image but honestly the fractional tiny difference between the two panels wouldn't hardly be noticeable, you'd probably be pleased with either!

Yes, I'm sure I would, but I'm really trying to understand the sRGB vs Adobe (Wide Gamut) RGB issue for us in the sign business.

I forgot to say that I'll NOT be using this new monitor for any movies or gaming.

 

[AUTO-FX]

How important do you think the video card is to the quality of the output? Do we need super dooper video cards in addition to a high quality monitor?

 

[HulkSmash]

FYI colin, im sure you know this..but, if you get a monitor that's not supported by your current video card (resolution, or enough power from the PS) you will get tons of lag. Make sure your card is up to date also.

 

[Colin]

The Win7 machine is a brand new computer, so I'm confident that it'll be ok. Not sure about the old XP machine which will also be used on the monitor (with a KVM switch).

 

[JoshLoring]

Yes, I'm sure I would, but I'm really trying to understand the sRGB vs Adobe (Wide Gamut) RGB issue for us in the sign business.

Don't get a TV for a monitor job. You will NEVER achieve true monitor to print calibration.
Stick with LCD and avoid LED monitors. There currently isn't any calibration devices that support them. (ex. Pantone Huey)
Get a monitor with Adobe RGB support. Srgb is the standard for Internet viewing and non design applications. Adobe RGB1998 is the standard for true print design and color synchronization.
You can always export Srgb files from adobe for client emailing. Then, you see what prints right- and they see how it's meant to look on their TV or monitors
In generic terms:
Adobe1998 = print related viewing and profiling
Srgb= garbage monitor viewing and Internet profile

 

[Colin]

Good article here. The part (near the bottom) under "Colour Depth" is interesting. But I'm still not sure how that applies to me, and what I would be required to do in terms of calibrating.

quote:



I'll also make reference to the fact that the U2410 features an 8-bit + A-FRC panel which can offer a colour palette of 1.07 billion colours if you have a relevant end to end 10-bit workflow (application, operating system, graphics card, interface etc). That is very rare and so to 99% of users this support of "10-bit" is largely irrelevant. It's 12-bit internal processing is designed to help improve gradients as well. These kind of features are usually reserved for high end graphics screens such as the NEC PA series, but Dell included them here on the U2410.

 

[choucove]

First let me ask, what kind of video card does your new computer have? What kind of display connection will you be using?

While your Adobe software is capable of working with high color precision (8-bit color depth) a lot of "standard" graphics cards will not really support that full output to a monitor. You need to be running a professional graphics card, such as an nVidia Quadro card, or an AMD FirePro to get the full 8-bit color depth and precision from your software. You also need to be using a cable that is also capable of carrying this information, which preferably would be a DisplayPort cable.

If you don't have a professional graphics card or aren't using DisplayPort, there there is no benefit for you going for the higher quality U2410 over the cheaper but still very highly capable U2412M monitor.

 

[Colin]

That's very helpful - thanks. The card is an Asus GeForce GT430 1GB PCI-E, and I'm using a DVI cable. The U2410 has an HDMI option, but the U2412M doesn't.

 

[SightLine]

Agreed - TV's do not make good computer monitors.

But - (I get this a lot - which is better - LCD or LED?) I want to point out that this comparision is like saying which is better - a 350 small block or Owens Corning brand insulation? The comparison makes no sense whatsoever.


LED (as they have become known) monitors and TV's are STILL LCD. LED is the backlight for the LCD panel, traditionally LCD panels used long thin flourescent lights to backlight the panel. New LCD panels use LED's to backlight the panel. By them being called LED monitors then the old ones should be called flourescent monitors.

The only LED technology small enough to make actual high resolution screens for up close viewing is OLED (Organic LED). There are very few OLED screens available at any reasonable size yet. Sony has a 25" one out - I think the retail is well over 20 grand. OLED is the future but it's still a long ways off from becoming mainstream for large sizes. It's all over in tiny screens on smartphones and whatnot though.

Anyways - I'd say go with an IPS LCD based monitor with LED or flourescent backlighting. I doubt you will notice the difference but the LED one will use a bit less energy. I'm unsure why a colorimeter could not calibrate one with LED backlights.

Don't get a TV for a monitor job. You will NEVER achieve true monitor to print calibration.
Stick with LCD and avoid LED monitors. There currently isn't any calibration devices that support them. (ex. Pantone Huey)
Get a monitor with Adobe RGB support. Srgb is the standard for Internet viewing and non design applications. Adobe RGB1998 is the standard for true print design and color synchronization.
You can always export Srgb files from adobe for client emailing. Then, you see what prints right- and they see how it's meant to look on their TV or monitors
In generic terms:
Adobe1998 = print related viewing and profiling
Srgb= garbage monitor viewing and Internet profile

 

[WildWestDesigns]

That's very helpful - thanks. The card is an Asus GeForce GT430 1GB PCI-E, and I'm using a DVI cable. The U2410 has an HDMI option, but the U2412M doesn't.

To my knowledge the only difference between DVI and HDMI is that HDMI allows audio to pass through the cable as well. DVI is just video. Of course, then you have DVI analog and DVI digital as well.

 

[Colin]

What timing! Yesterday the U2410 was $599, and today Dell has it on sale for $429, so I ordered one and it should be here by the end of the week.

Thanks for all the replies, and if anyone has more in-depth advice/insight on how to delve into the calibration thing for Adobe RGB that would be great too (although I've heard that these are factory calibrated, and done well).

 

[signswi]

The factory calibration is decent but you should calibrate on site with a spyder or i1. Good purchase, u2410 is the best monitor on the market for the price point, buy them while you can.

Wide gamut actually makes a huge difference for people like us where print is the intention. 6bit sRGB monitors are fine for the web development crew but if your final work is going to be printed, you want something with close to or more than AdobeRGB gamut and it should be 8bit.

 

[Colin]

Wide gamut actually makes a huge difference for people like us where print is the intention. 6bit sRGB monitors are fine for the web development crew but if your final work is going to be printed, you want something with close to or more than AdobeRGB gamut and it should be 8bit.

This is what I was wondering about. The only printing I do is with my Solvent printer, and when designing for that printer, I use the Roland color palette, which often looks very different on-screen than what it will print out as, so I simply ignore the screen. So I imagine that the Roland color will still look "way off" on-screen with the Wide gamut monitor, no?