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New printer band wagon
- Thread starter tbullo
- Start date
SkyPrintAlex
Alex
Don't so it! No More Rolands for me. Look at the HP360 latex printer. Seriously. After doing my research I will never by a solvent printer again. I have that right now I have to wait at leave 24 hours to laminate. It's a big headache. I hear those are about 12-14k, leaves you the difference to get a separate cutting solution. That's the only way I will go for now on.
Kathi Hauser
Sign Girl
I used that Roland also...
CONS based on experience - You can not cut out dark prints right away because the pinch roller runs tracks through your uncured dark inks. I also had issues cutting out a full bleed decal on dark ink immediately because it curled as it finished drying later. You can set the printer to wait for drying before cutting....but that just ties up the machine.
You can laminate and then reload it to cut, honest...you do not have to wait for the outgassing, it's been tested.
*problem is it is only pinch rollers and loading a cut off sheet instead of a roll is never a perfect science. It cuts crooked!! If the roller goes on and off the laminate and its not a perfect edge, it doesn't take much to make adjustable pinch rollers allow a slew left or right.
Take your plotter and while slew forward and reverse...poke the left or right edge....you can steer your vinyl easily with pinch rollers.
I can go on and on about other reasons to have a separate plotter.
I used MUTOH before I ever sold them and swear by them over the Roland.
Mutoh Printers don't use adjustable pinch rollers and I can print a banner with a perfect sized margin the whole length for finishing...no trimming the edge because its crooked.
Look into a MUTOH VJ1624.
CONS based on experience - You can not cut out dark prints right away because the pinch roller runs tracks through your uncured dark inks. I also had issues cutting out a full bleed decal on dark ink immediately because it curled as it finished drying later. You can set the printer to wait for drying before cutting....but that just ties up the machine.
You can laminate and then reload it to cut, honest...you do not have to wait for the outgassing, it's been tested.
*problem is it is only pinch rollers and loading a cut off sheet instead of a roll is never a perfect science. It cuts crooked!! If the roller goes on and off the laminate and its not a perfect edge, it doesn't take much to make adjustable pinch rollers allow a slew left or right.
Take your plotter and while slew forward and reverse...poke the left or right edge....you can steer your vinyl easily with pinch rollers.
I can go on and on about other reasons to have a separate plotter.
I used MUTOH before I ever sold them and swear by them over the Roland.
Mutoh Printers don't use adjustable pinch rollers and I can print a banner with a perfect sized margin the whole length for finishing...no trimming the edge because its crooked.
Look into a MUTOH VJ1624.
MikePro
New Member
+1 to rethinking your options to include the HP Latex printers. I was a solvent printer for nearly a decade and wasn't so quick to jump-ship, BUT I have been headache-free ever since I swapped-over to this HP26500. Instant-dry, no solvent odor, and even does its own color profiling & alignments!
Print&cut models are nice, but can quickly become a bottleneck in your production.
Space-savers, I guess, but is an additional plotter that much more clutter?
Is it worth being unable to print until you've finished cutting the previous file?
I feel much more satisfied having three machines running at the same time (printer, plotter, & laminator), especially when I'm already applying finished product before print&cut models are running their second file.
Print&cut models are nice, but can quickly become a bottleneck in your production.
Space-savers, I guess, but is an additional plotter that much more clutter?
Is it worth being unable to print until you've finished cutting the previous file?
I feel much more satisfied having three machines running at the same time (printer, plotter, & laminator), especially when I'm already applying finished product before print&cut models are running their second file.
danno
New Member
We have 2 HP9000s and a L26500. If you are looking for a direct replacement for the 8000, I would look at the Seiko W series. We are currently looking at the M series. I would definitely take some previously printed files and test them on all machines you are interested in purchasing.
Desert_Signs
New Member
This is not true. You might get away with it on some stuff, but you DO need to wait if you want to sell a quality product that will last....
Zambookajoe
New Member
just got a jv150-160 a couple of weeks back, I like it as of now, minor issues
but nothing major,Im coming from a jv33 so to me its pretty darn close to a jv33
plus the increase speed(nothing outrageous) print quality is way better then my jv33
really quiet, improved control panel is awesome.
rasterlink 6 is better then 5 but nothing spectacular
Id definetly recommend as its a basic printer that you dont need and engineering degree to fix yourself
but nothing major,Im coming from a jv33 so to me its pretty darn close to a jv33
plus the increase speed(nothing outrageous) print quality is way better then my jv33
really quiet, improved control panel is awesome.
rasterlink 6 is better then 5 but nothing spectacular
Id definetly recommend as its a basic printer that you dont need and engineering degree to fix yourself
Kathi Hauser
Sign Girl
Actually ..as I said...its been tested and debunked.
I am lookng for the article now. I think it was in sign of the times...
All myth. Absolutely no quality difference Noted....I do it all the time. If it's dry to the touch...it's able to be laminated.
vinyl will shrink when out gassing until the laminate fixes it. So the only time I wait for out gassing is when I have to seam something. otherwise it won't line up if one shrinks more than the other. Then you have to let both sides finish shrinking
Kathi Hauser
Sign Girl
Hey...check this out
http://read.uberflip.com/i/245221-restyling-truck-accessories-february-2014/28?
http://read.uberflip.com/i/245221-restyling-truck-accessories-february-2014/28?
Desert_Signs
New Member
Kathi,
I know both Sergio and Ryan in person. I've worked with Ryan for close to 5 years. With 'proper' fine tuning, it is possible to avoid waiting for lamination. Just a blanket statement "You don't have to outgas eco-solvent" is incorrect and misses the entire point of the article.
The point is, buy Caldera and hire Ryan to come in and build profiles for you. IF you do that, you too can avoid the wait for outgassing. If you're not using Caldera and you haven't specifically built profiles, you still need to outgas.
IMO, the article is misleading to state "Outgassing BUSTED!", because it's not - and the article highlights that it isn't, UNLESS you custom tune your equipment. And, believe me, for the small shop, doing so is not cheap and might cost more than you save in time.
Quick edit: I just talked to Ryan. He said, and I quote, "yes i wrote a profile for him that allowed him to laminate without all the issues of outgassing but it is highly not recommended .. if you laminate to soon ESPECIALLY with eco solvant it will destroy the longevity of your wraps"
MikePro
New Member
hah, I remember that one too. thanks for reposting.
Its funny because people use it as evidence to "debunk" outgassing, where the article actually acknowledges the existence of outgassing as an issue.
Their solution was dialing-down ink limits and profiling their machines like you're supposed to be doing anyways.
thread derailed with this argument, as the OP seems hard-set on solvent printing.
in which case,
Its funny because people use it as evidence to "debunk" outgassing, where the article actually acknowledges the existence of outgassing as an issue.
Their solution was dialing-down ink limits and profiling their machines like you're supposed to be doing anyways.
thread derailed with this argument, as the OP seems hard-set on solvent printing.
in which case,
Kathi Hauser
Sign Girl
Jv33
Yeah....its been totally derailed! Sorry.
We were asked for opinions on Roland, so I was commenting on machines I used.
Somehow the focus shifted. I was commenting on the print and cut machines as being an issue with drying before cutting. Those I used with Flexi have easy profiling because manufacturers supply profiles you only need to tweak a little to your environment. I drive by a print we did on a Roland that was laminated immediately, 5 yrs and counting...looks great outside baking on a food venders trailer and booth. So I will call that luck so I dont offend anyone. But, no matter how much I scaled back dark ink, we just couldn't sit there waiting for the ink to dry enough for the rollers to go back across it to cut out. The Roland left roller marks and if you cut a non laminated print too soon it curled.
So...the printer is sitting there waiting for it to dry, or we remove it to run the next print. If we have to remove it...I would rather have a separate plotter. Once I started using a separate print and cut again, I said I'd never get one of those style Rolands.
But since you are looking at solvent and not print and cut...Please post a review of what you get!
And also...how was the JV33?
I have someone who just offered it as a trade in to buy a Edge FX from me. (I dont want to take it in having never touched one)
Maybe I will have him post it for sale (Northern MI)
Yeah....its been totally derailed! Sorry.
We were asked for opinions on Roland, so I was commenting on machines I used.
Somehow the focus shifted. I was commenting on the print and cut machines as being an issue with drying before cutting. Those I used with Flexi have easy profiling because manufacturers supply profiles you only need to tweak a little to your environment. I drive by a print we did on a Roland that was laminated immediately, 5 yrs and counting...looks great outside baking on a food venders trailer and booth. So I will call that luck so I dont offend anyone. But, no matter how much I scaled back dark ink, we just couldn't sit there waiting for the ink to dry enough for the rollers to go back across it to cut out. The Roland left roller marks and if you cut a non laminated print too soon it curled.
So...the printer is sitting there waiting for it to dry, or we remove it to run the next print. If we have to remove it...I would rather have a separate plotter. Once I started using a separate print and cut again, I said I'd never get one of those style Rolands.
But since you are looking at solvent and not print and cut...Please post a review of what you get!
And also...how was the JV33?
I have someone who just offered it as a trade in to buy a Edge FX from me. (I dont want to take it in having never touched one)
Maybe I will have him post it for sale (Northern MI)
Deathsando
New Member
Mutoh
I am on my second Mutoh. I started with a 1604 some years ago and have a 1624 now. It would take something pretty significant to happen industry wise to get me away from them. Out-gassing time isn't an issue, you just have to plan for it. The bang for the buck on the Mutoh is unmatched. The one thing I would suggest when buying a printer is to spend the extra money on a take-up system that winds both ways. When you get to the point where you laminate almost everything having the prints reverse wound makes your life a lot easier.
I am on my second Mutoh. I started with a 1604 some years ago and have a 1624 now. It would take something pretty significant to happen industry wise to get me away from them. Out-gassing time isn't an issue, you just have to plan for it. The bang for the buck on the Mutoh is unmatched. The one thing I would suggest when buying a printer is to spend the extra money on a take-up system that winds both ways. When you get to the point where you laminate almost everything having the prints reverse wound makes your life a lot easier.
Kathi Hauser
Sign Girl
Yes, a friend of mine bought one of our old take op reels off of a trade in and used it on the back of his laminator stand.
Then you can take your print off the front of the printer and let it feed through the laminator and winds as it comes out. Then it is reversed so you can put it on the back of the plotter with the first registration marks unwinding first.
Brilliant!
Then you can take your print off the front of the printer and let it feed through the laminator and winds as it comes out. Then it is reversed so you can put it on the back of the plotter with the first registration marks unwinding first.
Brilliant!
tbullo
Superunknown
I did not think about the Mutoh. Looks like that could be an option as well. Have you had any problems in the past? Does it band any in that wave pattern that it does? Is Fellers the only source for them? We have had no problems with our 8000, so maybe a little spoiled. I hope to have something in the next 4 weeks.
Glad to be back on track. Thanks for the input.
Kathi Hauser
Sign Girl
The wave pattern is found in a lot of machines now to hide imperfections..Banding is adjusted with the print feed based on the thickness of the material you are using. I show people how to do it when installing the printer, and tell them I am sure they will call me the first time they need o do it...so it is ok to call. The instructions for the adjustment are simple and in the manual...
There are a lot of MUTOH distributors, including me. I don't sell Mutoh outside of a 6 hour drive from Buffalo...this way if something happens I can get on the road and be there BEFORE the head dries.
You should go with a distributor close enough to you to not only provide you with the Installation and training for the MUTOH warranty...But someone close by enough to also service the machine should there be a warranty issue. Know your tech...it's nice to have advice when needed. Just be sure you get installation and training, recently some places have omitted the MUTOH warranty and replaced it with a modified parts only version so they don't have to provide the mandatory installation or service.
Deathsando
New Member
I got the first one from Sign Warehouse and the second through Denco. I think you can get them from most places that sell equipment. The wave pattern only shows if you are going to heavy on your ink, which you shouldn't do. Beyond the excellent print quality I find the color gamut to be above any other 4 color printers, my next will most likely be the whatever replaces the 1638 which has the wider color gamut. I did hit apple green right on the nose with the 1624 about 3 weeks ago, so again impressive for a 4 color. There is a guy who is down the street from me who has a HP latex and he concedes the color reproduction on the Mutoh is much better. The print head is going to go at about year 3, which is about par on a dx5 print head (it actually isn't so much time as feet printed). The capping station needs to be replaced yearly (I think). In terms of fuss they are really low maintenance for a solvent printer. I started printing on an Oce Arizona 80 digital screen press and that thing was like wrestling a bear. I have had limited experience with the Rolands and they don't print as well or as fast as the Mutoh (in my first hand experience). All of the things the Rolands do is stuff that does me no good as I would rather have a printer, plotter and laminator all moving at once.