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Newbie Needing Help With Greys

EMS

EMS

New Member
Hello Signs101 Community,

First post here!

- Running a Mimaki CJV150 with SS21 Inks using Rasterlink6 Ver 5.16.
- Printing on Avery MPI1105SC and MPI12903

I’m new to digital printing and curious to see how everyone achieves nice greys in their printing. I’m finding that my greys are either green or a muddy colour.

- Is it something as simple as a profile in Rasterlink? The profile we are using is CJV1504CSS21_Ave-3000_v35_F112692.icc

- Could it be more complex like colour management and understanding of colour theory? I have just started playing around with the ‘Colour Adjust’ dropping the Cyan, Magenta and Yellow values but still couldn’t come up with satisfactory result. (Picture attached is typical print settings)

- Or is it the process of printing from illustrator to Rasterlink? When in illustrator and ready to print, I usually just click on print, select the printer (CJV150) which drops it into Rasterlink. I did find that when I hit print in Illustrator and clicked on the ‘Colour Management’ tab, the document profile is U.S Web Coated (SWOP) v2 and the ‘Printer Profile’ has sRGB IEC61966-2.1 automatically selected, I did try changing it to U.S Webcoated but I don’t think it made much of a difference.

I’d appreciate any comments, feedback or just a nudge in the right direction either links, YouTubers, tutorials, etc as I would love to learn more about this software and machine.

Thanks!
 

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L

Lady Who

New Member
Hello there!
Try selecting the Gray Balance option in the Color Matching section, on the Quality menu for all jobs containing greys. That always worked for me when the greys were brownish.

grey.jpg
 
richsweeney

richsweeney

New Member
If you can hit grey, then you are doing well. Next to blue it is the most difficult color to hit with 6 or 4 color printing.
 
Stacey K

Stacey K

I like making signs
I can't help you with the printer but choosing the right grey is hard. I always use my color bridge and make sure I'm pulling from the grays in the middle of the browns and greens to pick the truest grey.
 
rjssigns

rjssigns

Active Member
Print a Gray20 swatch(20% each of CMYK) and see what you get. Does it have a color cast? Too much or too little saturation?
If you can't get a decent Gray20 it's a profile issue.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Try one of the gpvc profiles and see if it's any better. It works good enough for me on just about every media
 
K

karst41

New Member
Mez said:
Hello Signs101 Community,

First post here!

- Running a Mimaki CJV150 with SS21 Inks using Rasterlink6 Ver 5.16.
- Printing on Avery MPI1105SC and MPI12903

I’m new to digital printing and curious to see how everyone achieves nice greys in their printing. I’m finding that my greys are either green or a muddy colour.

- Is it something as simple as a profile in Rasterlink? The profile we are using is CJV1504CSS21_Ave-3000_v35_F112692.icc

- Could it be more complex like colour management and understanding of colour theory? I have just started playing around with the ‘Colour Adjust’ dropping the Cyan, Magenta and Yellow values but still couldn’t come up with satisfactory result. (Picture attached is typical print settings)

- Or is it the process of printing from illustrator to Rasterlink? When in illustrator and ready to print, I usually just click on print, select the printer (CJV150) which drops it into Rasterlink. I did find that when I hit print in Illustrator and clicked on the ‘Colour Management’ tab, the document profile is U.S Web Coated (SWOP) v2 and the ‘Printer Profile’ has sRGB IEC61966-2.1 automatically selected, I did try changing it to U.S Webcoated but I don’t think it made much of a difference.

I’d appreciate any comments, feedback or just a nudge in the right direction either links, YouTubers, tutorials, etc as I would love to learn more about this software and machine.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Well Sir welcome to the world of printing.
I am in my 41st year and I started matching colors by the Pantone Formula guides.

Let me tell you what I know.
Greys can be the most Hateful Color in the Universe and the Known 3952 Galaxies.

Rule #1 You are in digital printing and your Business is matching colors.
You "NEED" a Pantone Color Bridge I buy mine from Gregory1 in Buler KS
This is the single most essential tool in your shop.

There is a Formula swatch with formula values, and there is the CMYK by the numbers,
which is NOW and Today the drum beat that you march too.

Rule 2. Look at the Warm Grey Series and then the Cool Grey Series.
Read the numbers Learn what is going on with the color via the numbers. You will see
a pattern emerge and then you will see a WTF was that change all about.

Greys are anything but B&W But build you a simple Black Only Grey chart.
in %10 increments ie C=0 M=0 Y=0 K=10,15,20 etc.

Rule 2 In Greys and Blues Yellow = MUD This is why the Blue colors get hard to hit.

Rule 3. I wish I could add white. Your Values are too strong and your media is the white

Color Correction. CMYK ONLY
Flexi Sign and HP Latex hit the Pantones like clock work. Not all mind you but the vast majority.
Take note in the Pantone Book at how the CMYK colors look like Carp next to the Formula.

To achieve Formula colors Color Correction OFF!
You are going to blister through a ton of media. Dont go there. This is where the Eagles Soar.
and for now you are wallering in the mud with the rest of us Hogs.
Take your steps and print a Pantone chart to compare against the Book.

Rule 4. Buy a Pantone Formula Guide. Yo might find a good deal on a Brand new 2020
But update your book every 2 to 3 years. New colors are being introduced every year.

Rule 5. Do NOT fann the pages like a deck of cards. You are friking destroying the color values by micro cracks in each swatch. You will never escape the pig pen by doing this.


Cheers
 
C

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
Mez said:
I’m new to digital printing and curious to see how everyone achieves nice greys in their printing.
Click to expand...
Because color inkjet printers should be calibrated to grey, it’s a matter of keeping the printer calibrated. If the ICC output profile is generated while in the proper state of calibration and calibration remains, the ICC profile will be valid indefinitely so long as the ink set and media do not significantly change. One might use a spectrophotometer and software to calibrate, or a densitometer along with graph paper and arithmetic, or even by eye.

Although not ideal, one can also create a new ICC output profile which can oftentimes provide the basis for the color management system to "correct" gray balance.
 
C

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
Mez said:
- Is it something as simple as a profile in Rasterlink? The profile we are using is CJV1504CSS21_Ave-3000_v35_F112692.icc
Click to expand...
Not likely. However, it’s easy to check if an ICC output profile was generated when a color printer was calibrated to grey. Open your printer quality evaluation file in your design software and temporarily softproof the image using the ICC output profile in question. If the greys change, the printer was not calibrated to gray.
 
C

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
Mez said:
- Could it be more complex like colour management and understanding of colour theory?
Click to expand...
Yup. One must very familiar with the three primary colors of red, green, and blue along with their opposite colors of cyan, magenta, and yellow, always in that order and clockwise. Understand also the working ICC profile color space of designs and the transformation via the color management system to the printer's ICC output color space.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Just change your profile and see. I ran an avery profle on 1105, it says MPI2000 in the rip, and it was horrible. The one that works fine on about everything is GPVC(SPC706) 540x720 at 8 pass. Also use 720x1080 8 pass same GPVC.
Unless you are doing corporate stuff where they have someone who actually checks, close enough is usually fine.
 
C

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
Stacey K said:
I always use my color bridge and make sure I'm pulling from the grays in the middle of the browns and greens to pick the truest grey.
Click to expand...
I recommend using a printer's grayscale available from the likes of Kodak or Tiffen (same item) which is standard and much more practical.
 
C

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
rjssigns said:
Print a Gray20 swatch(20% each of CMYK) and see what you get. Does it have a color cast? Too much or too little saturation?
If you can't get a decent Gray20 it's a profile issue.
Click to expand...
20% each of CMYK does not result in a neutral gray and it's not meant to. Color printers should print a neutral gray scale with, and without, ICC profiles. Color printers produced neutral grays long before the introduction of ICC color technology.
 
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