No workers anywhere. Hint, we are in the PRC (People's Republic of California)

[CanuckSigns]

That concern was addressed at the end of your thread title (a lot of others could be addressed following the same path).



As to tech and how people that use mobile can be so backwards with tech. Actually the reason that they don't know basic computing is due to that very thing, mobile usage.

Think about how much that is abstracted away from the user, the file system (what passes for Windows Explorer, Files, Dolphin whatever one uses) isn't easily apparently to the user (why I like the PinePhone, it is). Saving, in this day and age of web based programs, auto save is all the rage (those that use Google apps on android (which is the de facto standard OS of mobile) are web apps, just using a webview to look like native). Locating files...global search, don't need to know where the file is actually located.

This is very true, I'm 37 and I consider myself to be very computer literate, partly because when i was going through school, we were learning on desktop computers. Everyone assumes that the younger generation is extremely computer savvy, but most young people these days havn't touched a desktop or laptop in years, almost all of their "screen time" is on a phone or a tablet, which as you said cuts off access to the "guts" of the computer in exchange for saving everything on the cloud.

Put them in font of a PC and ask them to do a simple task like change a file extension from .eps to .pdf and most people under 25 won;t know how to do it.

 

[binki]

Yes, We are in the Wild West here, just a different kind of wild.

We are east of Los Angeles (Outside of LA county on top of that) in a very quiet community but we are still affected by all the crazy.

The 'fun' thing right now is to have notifications when a car chase breaks out. Probably 3 or 4 times a day and there are about a dozen news choppers in the air at any time so we see them all. What I don't understand is how someone can do 100mph in rush hour when it takes me 3 hours to move 30 miles. Go figure.

 

[Scotchbrite]

We went for several months with one of our design/production jobs left open. A decent number of people applied, but they all kept washing out in various respects. It's kind of surprising just how bad computer literacy is these days even though most people are hauling around smart phones and using other digital devices. Too many just don't know how to do things like keep computer files organized. Aside from computers, it takes a certain aptitude to work with vinyl graphics or do other projects involving manual skills. We have a new guy who filled that position and so far he seems to be doing alright.



One of my best friends is a GM at a local Tex-Mex restaurant. He has always had to deal with staffing issues. The situation has been a whole lot worse lately. In the past a typical problem would be a server not showing up for her shift. If he fired that person he could get another server pretty quickly. Now there is a pretty big chunk of people who have retired out of the workforce or been forced out by having to take care of kids. And then there is still that segment of workers present who are irresponsible, unreliable f***-ups that just ask to get fired at any moment.

The minimum wage for tipped employees in Oklahoma is just $2.13 per hour. That might not be a bad thing if a server is working at a restaurant in a good location where people tip appropriately or generously. The people in my town have a bad reputation for treating servers like S#!+. I have friends who've worked as servers and bartenders. And I hear plenty of stories from my friend, the restaurant GM. Servers here will experience busting their @$$ taking care of a big table full of people, get treated rudely and then get zilch for a tip. Many restaurants require servers to pool their tips and/or share some of their tip money with the kitchen help. At the end of a shift a server could end up with less than what the fry cook at McDonald's made that day. So it's no wonder why people are quitting those jobs in droves.

I feel like the days of getting great customer service are over. Sometimes I get frustrated at restaurants, but then I remind myself "hey at least these people are actually working". But customer service all over, not just restaurants, is horrible these days.

The sticky issue here, which was already mentioned, is what happens with when it slows down? It gets hard to justify and cover payroll that is that high. Sometimes I wonder if it is even worth taking on the additional work vs just doing what you can with what you got. I went with option 2 and it's less of a headache

I had someone just the other day doing the whole "...but don't you want your business to grow?" routine and I was thinking I just want to keep the business I have. Even if I could pick up more sales I wouldn't be able to get the workers to meet the demand.

 

[binki]

Every time I get bad service AND complain AND get a response I offer to come in for free to show them how to do it. Not one taker. Go figure......

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I feel like the days of getting great customer service are over. Sometimes I get frustrated at restaurants, but then I remind myself "hey at least these people are actually working". But customer service all over, not just restaurants, is horrible these days.


I had someone just the other day doing the whole "...but don't you want your business to grow?" routine and I was thinking I just want to keep the business I have. Even if I could pick up more sales I wouldn't be able to get the workers to meet the demand

Like many, my dilemma is our core customers growth. It gets to a point where you can't keep up with what you already have established. I think for most small businesses, you have a certain amount of people that give you the majority of your work. Then the choice becomes shedding a large customer and losing a pile of work or being forced to grow just to maintain. Then you have to balance how much you work your employees if you want to retain them because there is a limit to that as well. This crap is constantly on my mind.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Every time I get bad service AND complain AND get a response I offer to come in for free to show them how to do it. Not one taker. Go figure......

Yeah, that's just what people want, let the guy that's bitching come show us how it's done. If you get bad service then just don't go back, it's pretty simple. Before you complain, put yourself in their shoes. It's busy enough now that if someone wants to start that crap here then I show them the door. We are all facing the same issues.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Just an observation... it seems that most people of color are the ones that are likely to be masked up and more worried about covid than whites.

This is very true, I'm 37 and I consider myself to be very computer literate, partly because when i was going through school, we were learning on desktop computers. Everyone assumes that the younger generation is extremely computer savvy, but most young people these days havn't touched a desktop or laptop in years, almost all of their "screen time" is on a phone or a tablet, which as you said cuts off access to the "guts" of the computer in exchange for saving everything on the cloud.

Put them in font of a PC and ask them to do a simple task like change a file extension from .eps to .pdf and most people under 25 won;t know how to do it.

You're a year older than me. 100% right. My daughter doesn't need a computer to do anything (except homeschool now) but before that it's all tablets and phone. When I was that age.. it was either TV or video games. The computer was the new exciting way to instant message friends and I'd be on it all night. Before I quit my computer shop job I started to see PC / Laptop sales decline rapidly when smartphones took hold. Why buy a PC when the phone does Facebook? Last year that computer shop closed down.

 

[binki]

Yeah, that's just what people want, let the guy that's bitching come show us how it's done. If you get bad service then just don't go back, it's pretty simple. Before you complain, put yourself in their shoes. It's busy enough now that if someone wants to start that crap here then I show them the door. We are all facing the same issues.

Pretty much. I can go into any place of business with bad service and make it better. I spent 12 years as a consultant doing just that. Prior to that I would go in as an employee to 'clean house'. Just an extra service I provide.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

You're a year older than me. 100% right. My daughter doesn't need a computer to do anything (except homeschool now) but before that it's all tablets and phone. When I was that age.. it was either TV or video games. The computer was the new exciting way to instant message friends and I'd be on it all night. Before I quit my computer shop job I started to see PC / Laptop sales decline rapidly when smartphones took hold. Why buy a PC when the phone does Facebook? Last year that computer shop closed down.

Y'all are both younger, to give an idea, I remember MS having a Unix-like OS.

Computers were always a part of my childhood, mainly DOS, but I died many a time of dysentery.

Ironically, I do think desktop sales are actually up, despite supply issues (gaming (not much else good entertainment nowadays) was the main driver). How long that lasts, I dunno. But it is amazing to actually listen to the young streamers talk about their rigs and they really are at the mercy of whomever sold them their rig. But such is progress for "you".

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Pretty much. I can go into any place of business with bad service and make it better. I spent 12 years as a consultant doing just that. Prior to that I would go in as an employee to 'clean house'. Just an extra service I provide.

Maybe but as a consultant they are asking you to do that as a customer they aren't.
Not everyone goes into business to be the best or have the greatest customer service. Often times people do it because their personality is better suited by working for themselves rather than for someone else. There are some prickly people in business and they don't want to change or be told how to do things.

 

[Boudica]

There are some prickly people in business and they don't want to change or be told how to do things.

And how! I was going to point that out. I thought biki was kidding. No one wants to have some random telling them how to do their job. Unless they asked.

 

[GAC05]

Not good here. We put out multiple calls for general helpers with no experience in the things we do - willing to train them up. Almost no response.
It was at a point that if someone like this showed up I'd tell them we could waive the safety shoe requirement but she would still have to wear a hard hat and high visibility vest.

Just this month things have changed a bit and we are getting some help from National Guard members that are getting off active duty orders.
So, things are looking up.

 

[MNT_Printhead]

Just an observation... it seems that most people of color are the ones that are likely to be masked up and more worried about covid than whites.

That may be true in your recently created suburaban community, but it does not hold any truth for what I see here up North or When I travel to TX (Dallas proper and Fdub proper) and Oklahoma. What is your real motivation for this claim?

 

[Bobby H]

Here in Lawton I see quite a few Black people of all ages wearing face masks in public. Yesterday at the YMCA I saw a couple Black women wearing masks while getting in their workouts. Lately I've seen lots of white people around town wearing masks in public too, but most of those people are in older age groups.

Things are crazy here. The state forces each city to build more houses but at the same time creates requirements that raise the price of the house. Flushes 90% of the water in the ocean and cuts water supplies to cities. Deregulates electricity but then can't figure out why electric rates are as much as 500% higher here than elsewhere.

Those conditions can help drive up the prices of housing. Then there is the situation with residential zoning. Various methods of American-style zoning are at the root of what urban planning experts call "the missing middle" in housing. Vast areas of American cities are devoted to R-1 zoning: detached single family homes. Within these R-1 zones the subdivisions will all have homes of similar sizes, visual style and price points. Maybe add a gate and guard shack for good measure.

It is exceedingly rare to find contemporary American neighborhoods that allow a mix of multi-family dwellings, apartments and stand-alone homes. But it is a common sight in European cities. Locations that are building mixed-use developments in the US are often building high priced "luxury" apartments above the commercial businesses on the ground floor. The missing middle syndrome in housing gives young adults just trying to get started on their own very little choice. Here in Lawton some young adults are faced with the choice of continuing to live with their parents, rent a house or apartment in a bad part of town, or move away from this region. Many are choosing to leave town.

As to tech and how people that use mobile can be so backwards with tech. Actually the reason that they don't know basic computing is due to that very thing, mobile usage.

I'm sure mobile devices have substantially worsened the problems in computing literacy. The Mac and Windows operating systems have long offered paths for users to be lazy or dumb at file management. The first computers I used back in high school during the early 1980's used command lines to manage files and run applications. Most computer users these days would be lost if staring into a black screen with a flashing cursor prompt.

As to immigration, wide open borders, illegals being able to vote in local elections (New York I believe, at least that was up for a vote and expected to pass last that I read), D and F grades being removed from school grades in at least one Cali district. None of that, in my mind bodes well.

When I was in my 20's I had a pretty hard stance against illegal immigration. Then I learned that stance was very naïve. I still don't like illegal immigration at all. But if I could do a Thanos-Snap and make every illegal in the US vanish it would cause major disruptions to our daily lives. Visits to the grocery store would be far worse than they are now. The sad fact is several industries have built much of their business models around the exploitation of migrant labor. There is no easy way to undo that. In some cases, even if the businesses are doing everything they can to be legal they have no other choice but to hire illegal immigrants. There isn't exactly big lines of American-born people just itching to work in a slaughter house.

Drop in birth rates, tends to happen in more developed countries just naturally. But there are other areas that have impacted people's desire to have kids, some not wanting them period, some concerned about the impact of the extra environmental strain on having more people, some don't want to have kids because of how family law is setup (this is country specific). I would say the later is having more and more of an impact. The ultimate reason behind that last aforementioned impact is also the reason that I would suspect is the demographic shift of those attending college as well.

Cultural shifts are one factor. Digital devices and their virtual connections are contributing to a reduction of in-person sexual activity. When women are educated, treated more equally to men and allowed to have autonomy over their sexuality they tend to have fewer children. In America more women want to have their own careers, make their own money and have their own independence. Having a child will disrupt that in a big way. Ultimately the fewer kids syndrome is more about money than any other factor. Parenthood in the US has become an extremely expensive life style. Health care, family-sized housing, day care, education and other trappings of parenthood are being priced sky high. Plenty of Americans want to have kids. But they're putting it off hoping the situation will become more affordable later.

I feel like the days of getting great customer service are over. Sometimes I get frustrated at restaurants, but then I remind myself "hey at least these people are actually working". But customer service all over, not just restaurants, is horrible these days.

Many customer service problems in restaurants come down to management. The close friend of mine who manages a Tex-Mex restaurant is a very good manager. He's strict, but his employees respect him because he's not some douche who hides out in the office. If they're slammed with customers he'll be in the back helping cooks. He'll even wash dishes and haul out garbage if it helps others get dinners out faster. The dirty jobs aren't beneath him. When he's not getting his hands dirty he's out on the floor greeting customers and asking them about their dining experience. This guy isn't trying to be Mother Theresa, but he knows if there are any problems in the restaurant the buck stops with him. His @$$ is the one in the sling if the higher ups get written customer complaints.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

That may be true in your recently created suburaban community, but it does not hold any truth for what I see here up North or When I travel to TX (Dallas proper and Fdub proper) and Oklahoma. What is your real motivation for this claim?

No motivation... just an observation. If I'm going to a black community or church I make sure to bring a mask because they seem to be bigger on that sort of thing than my "suburban community", and I want to be respectful.

 

[Stacey K]

Same here in Eastern Wisconsin. The McD's is only open from 7-7 and only the drive-thru, expect to wait 15-20 minutes. It's faster to go to Subway. Two restaurants owned by the same man take turns being open or are only open weekends, sometimes close all together for the week. 3 years ago my oldest made $11hr working for my landscaper customer. My youngest started last summer at the same place for $15 (oldest was not happy lol). He continues to beg me for my son to come back again this summer, likely with a raise. My "hoarder cleaner business" customer said last summer he shut down for 2 weeks because nobody wanted to show up for work. He offered me to have my son work for him for $18, never even met him. My boyfriends young 20's son's friend just told use Saturday he makes more than my boyfriend does because he's the only one that shows up and is willing to work overtime. My snowplower can't find help so he had to drop the city account to plow alleys.

If only I was a strong young man who wasn't afraid to work hard...imagine the overtime you could work 18-25 with no kids? People fighting over you, offering you dollars more than the last guy? What a time to be young and strong!

 

[victor bogdanov]

In the last 6 months I've went through 6 new hires to do finishing, cutting trimming etc. basic shop help at $15 with opportunity to learn and move up. No one lasted more than a week so I have up on hiring and buying a flatbed cutter which will free up my core employees. I think the labor shortages/unwillingness to work will lead to more automation and businesses figuring out how to get stuff done with less employees. Now hiring signs everywhere in my area. I had ask a 71 year old retired employee to help out until new equipment is set up and luckily she agreed.

 

[binki]

Those conditions can help drive up the prices of housing. Then there is the situation with residential zoning. Various methods of American-style zoning are at the root of what urban planning experts call "the missing middle" in housing. Vast areas of American cities are devoted to R-1 zoning: detached single family homes. Within these R-1 zones the subdivisions will all have homes of similar sizes, visual style and price points. Maybe add a gate and guard shack for good measure.

It is exceedingly rare to find contemporary American neighborhoods that allow a mix of multi-family dwellings, apartments and stand-alone homes. But it is a common sight in European cities. Locations that are building mixed-use developments in the US are often building high priced "luxury" apartments above the commercial businesses on the ground floor. The missing middle syndrome in housing gives young adults just trying to get started on their own very little choice. Here in Lawton some young adults are faced with the choice of continuing to live with their parents, rent a house or apartment in a bad part of town, or move away from this region. Many are choosing to leave town.

R1 is where the demad is. Mixed use is being forced on cities by the state and many cities are putting mixed use into downtown areas but with the added complication of not putting parking in or enough parking causing roadsides to be clogged with cars. That problem is solved by making street parking illegal or at least overnight street parking illegal.

I personally enjoy my R1 neighborhood. It is quiet and safe unlike mixed use areas that have restuarants and bars open until 2am, traffic noise and other things going on to disturb the peace. I have seen some of these developments in Downtown Los Angeles. The area is not safe as far as I am concerned. I avoid the area as much as possible. It is full of transients, crime and gangs. If that is what mixed use means in America then forget it. The same in downtown Cleveland which I worked in for half a year. I rented an apartment in the area and yes, it had stores below. It was ok from 7am to 6pm weekdays but nights and weekends turned into a war zone.

And you are right, people leave when it is too expensive as we have seen here. As for me, I will stay where I am unless something drastically changes in my part of town. Let market forces should take care of things. You can't force people into some fantasy model of living. They will just leave.

 

[Stacey K]

R1 is where the demad is. Mixed use is being forced on cities by the state and many cities are putting mixed use into downtown areas but with the added complication of not putting parking in or enough parking causing roadsides to be clogged with cars. That problem is solved by making street parking illegal or at least overnight street parking illegal.

I personally enjoy my R1 neighborhood. It is quiet and safe unlike mixed use areas that have restuarants and bars open until 2am, traffic noise and other things going on to disturb the peace. I have seen some of these developments in Downtown Los Angeles. The area is not safe as far as I am concerned. I avoid the area as much as possible. It is full of transients, crime and gangs. If that is what mixed use means in America then forget it. The same in downtown Cleveland which I worked in for half a year. I rented an apartment in the area and yes, it had stores below. It was ok from 7am to 6pm weekdays but nights and weekends turned into a war zone.

And you are right, people leave when it is too expensive as we have seen here. As for me, I will stay where I am unless something drastically changes in my part of town. Let market forces should take care of things. You can't force people into some fantasy model of living. They will just leave.

Interesting conversation. I'm good with my decent neighborhood also. My friends lived in the newest neighborhood in town and they build some apartments on the next block next to the nice park. Well, pretty soon you couldn't send your kid to the park alone because the drunk loser people were outside screaming, plenty of sketchy people. Suddenly one day my friends kid came home and told them about a new friend whose dad invited him in the apartment. He was in a wheelchair and drunk and the mom was screaming, place was a disaster. Kid couldn't get home quick enough. That was the last time they were allowed at the park. Drunk wheelchair dad drove his wheelchair to their house a few times wondering why their kid couldn't come over and play anymore with his kid. It didn't end well...for the wheelchair guy...

 

[Scotchbrite]

Like many, my dilemma is our core customers growth. It gets to a point where you can't keep up with what you already have established. I think for most small businesses, you have a certain amount of people that give you the majority of your work. Then the choice becomes shedding a large customer and losing a pile of work or being forced to grow just to maintain. Then you have to balance how much you work your employees if you want to retain them because there is a limit to that as well. This crap is constantly on my mind.

I have reservations about tying my business growth to one customer too much. All it takes is for that customer to hire a new marketing person that has their own preferred sign shop and we're out. Had it happen too many times. Wait a couple of years and they get another marketing person and we are back on the preferred list again. Haha We've also been fortunate to have only lost 2 customers I can think of in 20+ years that grew beyond our abilities.