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No workers anywhere. Hint, we are in the PRC (People's Republic of California)
- Thread starter binki
- Start date
binki said:
Let market forces take care things? That isn't happening with these zoning setups and other similar methods (like what Houston uses). Most American cities allow only certain kinds of housing to be built across vast parts of a city. There isn't any variety, certainly not with anything new being built. You have big stand-alone homes for people with big wallets. The condos in trendy city center zones are built with the same well-off people in mind, maybe as a downtown crash pad or an investment asset to hold.
Very little in the way of modest-sized homes for people with middle of the road incomes is being built brand new. Home builders only like projects that involve big subdivisions with dozens of similar style homes. Not one-off projects, unless it's a freaking mansion. Conditions aren't there for them to take chances on duplexes, brownstones, town homes, etc. That leaves a lot of people trying to find older, smaller, stand-alone homes they can renovate. But even that can cost a $#1+ ton to do. Many home buyers are being forced to buy homes they really can't afford. Thanks to the government relaxing lending standards (again) it's even easier to give someone enough rope to hang himself. The conditions are leading to a lot of unconventional living arrangements and life style choices. I've already spoke about fewer young adults having children. There are more instances of unrelated people rooming up together to share a house or apartment. I think that's what going in the house next door to mine; the new neighbors appear to be two families with an elderly grandparent tagging along.
The talk about crime and what not is a common NIMBY trump card played to prevent multi-unit housing or other types of housing for non upper class people to be built in any given location. The consequence of keeping a gated subdivision "safe" will over time force those big home owners to drive longer distances to find service businesses that can be properly staffed. Any service businesses built close to those big, upper income homes need workers. Why should anyone commute a long distance to work a low pay job when similar crummy jobs can be acquired almost anywhere else? During weekdays McDonald's has to employ grown adults to keep the doors open.
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$15 an hour?? That was my starting wage in the sign industry over 10 years ago. The workers are there. The wages aren't.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
I do as well but we're in a niche business not related to signs. We have a real good customer list which are pretty much all construction related. It's not 1 or 2 that are growing, it's all of them. I've hired extra people to try and keep up better but for the past 5-6 years it's been disappointing at best. The worker situation was like this well before covid and it seems like it's only the unemployable types that bounce around now. They're just a waste of time. There's also a lot of poaching happening.
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Our city is one of the most restrictive on multi-unit residential allotment. They also have strict regulations on building materials and methods which drive up cost and "keep property values favorable". They don't build starter homes here... and just saw today we're the 5th safest city... so they are doing something right.
www.moneygeek.com
Safest Cities In America 2024: Violent Crime Rate Increases Drive Per Capita Cost of Crime
How safe is your city, and how much is crime costing your community? Find out how your hometown stacks up in our analysis of crime statistics and costs.
Stacey K
I like making signs
I only need a few hours of help every week, it's super hard to find people. High school kids are busy with sports, older people are already working. I had someone lined up this week to help me with a few bigger jobs ($25hr cash plus lunch - not good enough I guess). They won't answer their phone. Now I sit here waiting until 5 when my son is done with football weightlifting and working until who knows when tonight.
This is why I don't take on much more than I can handle alone. Pisses me off.
This is why I don't take on much more than I can handle alone. Pisses me off.
Here in my town lots of young adults either can't get out of the small island town fast enough, can't afford to yet, or are trying to move in to their own little forest cabin (that they have to buy land and then spend money building before they can move in). I can think of three friends including myself who still live with their parents because the rent for a single bed apartment is so high, we can't get a multi at all, forget about houses, and none of our jobs (even the government jobs I know of) pay enough to afford the rent, food, power, and trash/recycling, and forget about having a phone or internet plan. The one down in the connected states has some serious health complications that sucks up the money she's been getting from her job, too.
All I can say is thank the stars I don't live on the west coast or Aleutian Islands of Alaska though. Last I heard almost 4 years ago now, a gallon of milk in Kotzebue was $11 minimum where it was $6 here and $3 back in Beaverton, OR.
Scotchbrite
No comment
I would agree, it's definitely been an issue for the last 6 years. The biggest thing I thought was different this last time we hired was people scheduling interviews and not showing up. In the past it seems like we just wouldn't be able to get a hold of them.
We've been using my oldest son for general labor, but now he's back in college. I can't decide if it's even worth trying to hire someone to do what he was. BY that I mean if it's worth the headache and frustration to even try.
Texas_Signmaker said:
Sounds like gentrification to me. Where are all the people who staff the service businesses in that 5th Safest City living? Probably not there.
Taryn said:
Young adults being stuck is a common problem. It's pretty absurd if someone graduates from college but has to move back in with parents because he's loaded down with student loan debt and can't start out making enough to live on his own.
America's economy and tax base depends pretty heavily on the old fashioned institution of young adults getting married, having kids, buying homes and all that crap. Many young adults are being priced out of that situation. That's in addition to the other young adults choosing to opt out of it. It's going to be an interesting situation for the residential real estate market 20 or so years from now when a lot of owners of these McMansions are dying off. Who are the buyers going to be?
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Oh they live here... but mainly confined to the apartment complexes. Coincidently when there is crime.. it involves those complexes.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
Unless you are going to law or med school, there is absolutely no good reason to be coming out of school with all of this debt. That's all from the ones that use the loans to live way above their means and refuse to get a part time job to offset their costs. I have no sympathy whatsoever for that.
Hell, I question the value of even going to college anymore. My brother is a diesel truck mechanic, has just a high school education, but makes a lot more per hour than many college educated people. Other skilled trades can pay pretty well. The inflation rate on college tuition is far above average income growth. Many fields of study, like being an elementary school teacher for example, are in job categories with pay so low it's not going to be worth the investment. Unfortunately so many students enter these fields of study without knowing up front they're a bad investment.
And then there is the scam many colleges run on students, requiring them to live on campus and do other things to incur all sorts of additional cost. Adding to that: the naïve irresponsibility of students themselves, not fully understanding how loans, interest and debt works. College loans are much more predatory now than they were 30 years ago when I was a college student. I could borrow only so much back then and had to work other jobs to make up the difference. Today we're seeing kids making the mistake of literally living on student loans for four years and digging themselves a really deep hole in the process. Sure, it's their own fault; they may not deserve any sympathy. But with little if any spare disposable income they're not able to contribute to the economy while stuck paying down all that debt.
And then there is the scam many colleges run on students, requiring them to live on campus and do other things to incur all sorts of additional cost. Adding to that: the naïve irresponsibility of students themselves, not fully understanding how loans, interest and debt works. College loans are much more predatory now than they were 30 years ago when I was a college student. I could borrow only so much back then and had to work other jobs to make up the difference. Today we're seeing kids making the mistake of literally living on student loans for four years and digging themselves a really deep hole in the process. Sure, it's their own fault; they may not deserve any sympathy. But with little if any spare disposable income they're not able to contribute to the economy while stuck paying down all that debt.
Boudica
Back to "educational purposes"
College bound seniors should have to take a class for this as a prerequisite - for college.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
You can always go to college, get your degree in something like business or finance and then go on to be a diesel mechanic or any other trade. It will give you a big leg up for promotions down the road. Also, doing some of these trades while you are young is great but your ability to efficiently do a lot of the required tasks diminishes as you get older. It is nice to have the ability to move up to a position that is easier on your body. To me, having a degree and knowing a trade is the best route to success.
MNT_Printhead
Working among the Corporate Lizard People
I am riding my votech certification and AAS to the moon! I have 1 friend who has a bachelors and earns more than me. If decide to learn more I'll just go to a community college.
I feel bad for people who went the Art institutes only to graduate with $90k in loans and up making $15-20 and hour - after they put time in and gain real experience.
I feel bad for people who went the Art institutes only to graduate with $90k in loans and up making $15-20 and hour - after they put time in and gain real experience.
binki
New Member
My point exactly. Government is picking winners and losers. They should zone commercial, retail, residential based on demand for those services. Residential, if R1 is preferred should be allowed. If high density is demanded and someone wants to build it, then so be it. Just keep in mind that in The PRC we have shortages of energy and water and adding even more housing will only make that worse. So what is the real point? How can more housing be added when basic services are not available to those that are already here?
No politics on this subject, just WTF is going on if on one hand you want more housing but on the other there isn't enough energy or water to support what is already here? Solutions encouraged.
binki
New Member
Here is why I don't go to Los Angeles. And no, I don't have a Rolex
ktla.com
Video shows Sherman Oaks man getting robbed of Rolex at gunpoint in broad daylight
A nurse is shaken after he was held up at gunpoint in a brazen midday robbery in Sherman Oaks Monday. The victim, who wishes to only be identified by his first name, Pavlo, said his Rolex was taken…
ktla.com
Texas_Signmaker
Very Active Signmaker
Houston doesn't have zoning laws... and it shows.
This may be my lack of life and world experience, but wouldn't you want to expand on the resources to support the people already there before even considering more housing? In my town we have plenty of water, but we have to have three redundancies in place in case one of our electricity sources goes kaput for any number of reasons. We just recently started upgrading the old backup facility some miles out of town because the underwater cables supplying us and two other towns had to be replaced the year before. We still get tons of power outs and shortages for any number of reasons besides.
A town up on the northern coast got a big greenhouse with super particular specifications going years ago before the pandemic because they couldn't get any fresh vegetables in before they started rotting. I don't remember the exact details but it was a pretty cool solution, given the land they're working with is frozen for 2/3 of the year, and when I learned about it myself they'd already been getting good results with lettuce for a while. Wish I still had that newspaper article, lol!
A town up on the northern coast got a big greenhouse with super particular specifications going years ago before the pandemic because they couldn't get any fresh vegetables in before they started rotting. I don't remember the exact details but it was a pretty cool solution, given the land they're working with is frozen for 2/3 of the year, and when I learned about it myself they'd already been getting good results with lettuce for a while. Wish I still had that newspaper article, lol!
MNT_Printhead
Working among the Corporate Lizard People
You are right. When fist I visited Houston, my friend took me out to a bar that was a house in a residential area; we took a table in the house's (main bar was in the family room) kitchen and he told me the story of how his friends used to live there before it became a bar.
The plus side is that you can have a convenience store in an apartment complex where you can get beer or toilet paper without hopping in car. I know you have you negative opinions about apartment dwellers, but you have to remember white people live in them as well.
That said, I would never want to live in Houston, DC and Dallas are the biggest cities I have lived in and I got tired of the constant growth and sprawl of Dallas, and I am over living in an hour from downtown of any where I go.