Not sure if I'm using the correct terminology................................................................................

[Stacey K]

I do signs for the dirt racetrack and put a couple coats of the Clear Shield on them. I feel it holds up better than a regular laminate against the dirt, rocks, etc. Those customers have so far been very happy. I never thought of spraying small stuff that's just used inside for random things, I'm going to order some aerosol spray.

 

[ikarasu]

Most people on Etsy or in the homecraft business spray their decals with clear lacquer in order to make it a little bit water resistant.

It tends to flake, and it produces a garbage product..

My guess is your customer was thinking you just spray painted some sort of clear coat on top and are calling it laminate

 

[Notarealsignguy]

That is a pet peeve of mine, customers showing up early or randomly wanting to know where their products are / why are they not ready.
* were you contacted? no? So that means they are not ready and now you are wasting my time so that notice of them being ready for receipt will be delayed.

We only use film lamination, so it will just list LAMINATION and then the type CAL, CAST, VANDALISM, ANTI-SLIP, ETC

its no rush, I was just passing by. Should I wait here while you make it?

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Years ago, we used Dana. It was really good sh!t. Got it from the west coast before all the hazmat and crazy people started making it almost impossible to get/use. Tried Frog Juice with some success and we had several gallons of it. We had some at full strength, 30%, 50% and 75% for various applications. We cut it ourselves. Also use clearshield both in liquid form and rattle can. Don't get me wrong, there's a laminator here for the rigid lams on the majority of vinyls and I keep gloss and matte on hand, but generally just oracal product.

Like I said, I was just looking to see if I misled this person with verbiage ?? Perhaps another shop told him something different..... so he asked.

Tell him you ran out of the cheap stuff and used the expensive clear shield but aren't charging him any extra for it.

 

[2B]

its no rush, I was just passing by. Should I wait here while you make it?

Funny you worded it that way......
pretty much word for word what I was asked earlier this week. They didn't say "RUSH"

with a sickly sweet reply.... Please have a seat and I will alert production of this status change, as well as accounting so the invoice can reflect this RUSH upgrade. please remember that while you wait production is a 300% upcharge.
I briskly walked away before they could reply.
they FREAKED, yelling to get my attention (I claim subject deafness) they frantically called the office number while standing in the lobby DO NOT UPGRADE TO RUSH !!!!

I always chuckle when the $$$ is added for a rush, the timeframe becomes standard

 

[gnubler]

I always chuckle when the $$$ is added for a rush, the timeframe becomes standard

Silly customers. I worked in commercial printing for many years and it was always "Can you put a rush on it but without a rush charge?"
Or "Get it done as soon as you can without putting a rush on it." Okay. So, normal production then?

 

[JBurton]

Had a customer in here the other day picking up some small decals that he was gonna stick on windows, doors and inside walls.

I am gonna guess you were supposed to refer to them as they?
In the spirit gnubler's thread on stupid customers, I only read the first line of this post...

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Funny you worded it that way......
pretty much word for word what I was asked earlier this week. They didn't say "RUSH"

with a sickly sweet reply.... Please have a seat and I will alert production of this status change, as well as accounting so the invoice can reflect this RUSH upgrade. please remember that while you wait production is a 300% upcharge.
I briskly walked away before they could reply.
they FREAKED, yelling to get my attention (I claim subject deafness) they frantically called the office number while standing in the lobby DO NOT UPGRADE TO RUSH !!!!

I always chuckle when the $$$ is added for a rush, the timeframe becomes standard

At least they didn't start grabbing things and offer to help, that's another charge.

 

[Johnny Best]

We still love you Gino even though you are being fallacious or misleading.

 

[bob]

Sorry Gino, I was referring to the statement that the use of a dictionary for definitions is fallacious, or purposefully misleading. You may have mislead a customer by saying you were laminating something that you were actually varnishing (even with a urethane resin instead of a natural resin...) BUT this mislead was in no way fallacious as even naming a spray varnish a 'laminate' is misleading. So when we all use the trade term to lay-people who are our customers, they are being mislead.

it is very likely that the term "liquid laminate" was created fallaciously so as to trick all of us "lay-sign makers" in to believing it was actually a laminate....

semantics can be very frustrating on both sides, imagine being told you are purchasing a very durable laminated print and all you get is something with a clear coat over it - the "liquid laminates" are good products, but the scratch/abrasion resistance is nothing compared to an exponentially thicker layer from a real laminate. I like to be sure the customer knows exactly what they are going to get - we never like when the customer receives a job and is surprised by what they receive.

"...purposefully misleading..." This is your term that you inserted for whatever reason, not mine. I only said 'fallacious', nothing more and that's all I meant. Your referring to liquid laminate products as 'varnish' is misleading. Moreover, your assertions that a vinyl laminate is "exponentially thicker" and is "real laminate" are false. For example, Clear Shield, properly applied, leveled, and dried, produces an actual acrylic film that's at least 1mil thick, thicker if you want. Since most vinyl laminate is 2-3mil this is not unreasonable certainly not 'exponentially' thicker. This layer is perfectly adhered to the vinyl and is reasonably tough. Tough enough for everyday use if you're not dragging it though thorn bushes at high speeds. Still not as tough as a vinyl laminate but the UV protection is far better than a vinyl laminate.

 

[BigNate]

"...purposefully misleading..." This is your term that you inserted for whatever reason, not mine. I only said 'fallacious', nothing more and that's all I meant. Your referring to liquid laminate products as 'varnish' is misleading. Moreover, your assertions that a vinyl laminate is "exponentially thicker" and is "real laminate" are false. For example, Clear Shield, properly applied, leveled, and dried, produces an actual acrylic film that's at least 1mil thick, thicker if you want. Since most vinyl laminate is 2-3mil this is not unreasonable certainly not 'exponentially' thicker. This layer is perfectly adhered to the vinyl and is reasonably tough. Tough enough for everyday use if you're not dragging it though thorn bushes at high speeds. Still not as tough as a vinyl laminate but the UV protection is far better than a vinyl laminate.

Bob, how do you define "Fallacious"? every common use I find shows it conveys an intent, not just misleading... this is a prime example of why dictionaries are important. "purposefully misleading" is an accurate common use definition of "Fallacious"

Also, I never said Liquid Laminate was a bad product - just that is has an inaccurate and quite possibly fallacious name. and being off by a factor of 2 or more (as a minimum) and factor of 100+ in some applications, I stand by the observation that the "Liquid Laminate" type varnishes leave a coating that is exponentially thinner than actual laminates.

 

[JBurton]

Bob, how do you define "Fallacious"? every common use I find shows it conveys an intent, not just misleading...

Dude, webster says the exact opposite. Derived from the word fallacy, which from a philosophical point of view, is not an attempt to deceive, but a fundamental misunderstanding or ignorance of topic.
To say liquid laminate is a fallacious name is true, but is accurate in only describing the name as a misnomer. Not to say that the supplying company is trying to trick you into believing it is indeed laminate in liquid form. Take for example, liquid nails. Do you think folks believe the tube is liquified nails? Maybe folks who don't understand stuff like nails would believe as much, but to the layman, obviously not. Now the question being, is laminate a layman's term, to which I can say with certainty, every customer wholly believes they understand what laminate/laminating is, and almost none of them actually do with respect to signage.
All that said, I've seldom heard fallacious used in any sort of common use, most likely due to the homonymous proximity to the word, fellatio.

 

[Boudica]

I was looking it up, and I swear I read that it was intentionally misleading. So I just looked it up again:

fallacious • \fuh-LAY-shus\ • adjective. 1 : embodying a fallacy 2 : tending to deceive or mislead : delusive.

It was the synonym part I saw that stated it's intended.......

What is a synonym for the word fallacious?
intended to deceive. “fallacious testimony” synonyms: deceitful, fraudulent dishonest, dishonorable. deceptive or fraudulent; disposed to cheat or defraud or deceive.

 

[BigNate]

This semantic discussion that dictionaries are needed is good - definitions can change and we should be on the same page if we want to have good communication.

When Monticello was built around 1800 it was described a being "awful and artificial" - not a great compliment for your home today, right? yet 200 years ago, our same language had different meanings: "awful" commonly meant 'full of awe' or 'awe inspiring' and "artificial" meant 'full of art' or 'artful'..... Dictionaries are important.... (though I can cite a few sources, I can also cite sources saying this is an apocryphal account - either way it is a good example of how language changes and contemporary dictionaries are important - especially if we are striving to use the correct terminology)

 

[Gino]

There are many words which have meanings changing over time. Bad, gay, nice, quell, guy, flirt, wench, silly and the list goes on while we humans continue to play with words

However, to me anything other then protecting your vehicles, decks, indoor/outdoor floors and furniture........ when dealing with signs of all kinds it's either a rigid lam or liquid. No misleading was ever intended regardless of how old the word is or how long I've been using certain products.

ps.. I don't think artificial is correct in your example.

 

[BigNate]

There are many words which have meanings changing over time. Bad, gay, nice, quell, guy, flirt, wench, silly and the list goes on while we humans continue to play with words

However, to me anything other then protecting your vehicles, decks, indoor/outdoor floors and furniture........ when dealing with signs of all kinds it's either a rigid lam or liquid. No misleading was ever intended regardless of how old the word is or how long I've been using certain products.

ps.. I don't think artificial is correct in your example.

yep, these changes are exactly why semantic discussions and dictionaries are important - and I did not ever think you purposefully mislead anyone. Actually I thought the exact opposite as you brought it up to the group about if you were using the correct terminology.... And if we in our industry cannot even be on the same page, how do we expect our customers to not be confused when we use our industry specific language with them?

 

[gnubler]

Bad, gay, nice, quell, guy, flirt, wench, silly...

I use all these words in my online dating profiles.

 

[Boudica]

dissecting the meaning of a word is apropos to the thread title

 

[Gino]

Why am I getting the feeling a spelling bee is coming up........... or a new thread for all of us to learn new words, their uses and meanings ??

 

[Johnny Best]

I use all these words in my online dating profiles.

I am looking for a bad gay man or woman who I can flirt with while appling lotion to quell that silly looking thing with a rash
you developed from that wench you last dated.