odd question...

[Geneva Olson]

I know paper printing is different from vinyl printing. Different printers, etc, but how many people here own the paper printing side as well as the sign shop vinyl printing side?
and if youve been doing this a while, have you ever had overlapping business with paper printers? How do you differentiate?

 

[Boudica]

Are you asking if they are a competitor to other "paper printers" and said other paper printers are a customer for vinyl prints?

ETA: we've had the opposite happen, where a "Paper Printer" got into the vinyl game and became a competitor. They were still sending us large prints we can do on our flatbed. We ended up firing them as a customer - but only after they tried to poach me away from my boss.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Are you asking if they are a competitor to other "paper printers" and said other paper printers are a customer for vinyl prints?

ETA: we've had the opposite happen, where a "Paper Printer" got into the vinyl game and became a competitor. They were still sending us large prints we can do on our flatbed. We ended up firing them as a customer - but only after they tried to poach me away from my boss.

lol. you always fix my questions. (i wasn't sure how to phrase the question. glad you interpreted it. thanks for speaking geneva! HA) your scenario is what i'm looking for. how many paper printers try to get into the vinyl game.

The question of the day in the area is: is there overlap and if so, how much?

 

[JBurton]

The question of the day in the area is: is there overlap and if so, how much?

Our local copy shop bought a flat bed and built a bay to do wraps in. Again, since I'm not primarily a print shop, we don't butt heads, but they are definitely giving the other print shops some competition.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Our local copy shop bought a flat bed and built a bay to do wraps in. Again, since I'm not primarily a print shop, we don't butt heads, but they are definitely giving the other print shops some competition.

are you categorized as a sign shop?

 

[JBurton]

are you categorized as a sign shop?

Yes, I'd think so, but we fabricate electronic signage primarily.

 

[DarkerKat]

The company I work for does both. Started in repo graphics in 1985 and pivoted to signage in 2008 (mostly just because we had a customer ask us if we could)
Now the bulk of our revenue comes from signage but we still run the print side. We have lots of overlap clients that use us for both. We're never going to beat out a fedex or vista print on pricing but we still do the whole gamut.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Yes, I'd think so, but we fabricate electronic signage primarily.

oh ok. so we have a sign shop around the corner that has a bucket truck and does mainly electrical. but he does compete with us too. I will send people over when they need lighted signs.

 

[netsol]

Are you asking if they are a competitor to other "paper printers" and said other paper printers are a customer for vinyl prints?

ETA: we've had the opposite happen, where a "Paper Printer" got into the vinyl game and became a competitor. They were still sending us large prints we can do on our flatbed. We ended up firing them as a customer - but only after they tried to poach me away from my boss.

 

[netsol]

boudica,
so he thought you were a great employee & offered you more money?
WHY, LETS HANG THE EVIL BASTARD!

I am very much on your side, but, I don’t see the harm.

 

[Boudica]

boudica,
so he thought you were a great employee & offered you more money?
WHY, LETS HANG THE EVIL BASTARD!

I am very much on your side, but, I don’t see the harm.

I don't think it would have been more money (probably less), and I don't think I would have liked the situation. He's just a dude who fell into some money, started buying up print shops with zero know-how, doesn't know anything about the industry or the business. No thank you, not leaving a good situation for that.
My boss takes good care of me and I'm happy where I'm at. It was super sleezy for the guy to come into where I work and tell me he needs a production manager and ask me if I would come work for him. Then begged me not to tell my boss. Of course I told my boss, and then my boss cut him loose as a customer. I'm pretty loyal when it's earned, and it would really put my boss in a bad spot if I were to leave.

 

[d fleming]

Told the wife to quit using our local paper printer a long time before she fired them. Had to show her they were charging retail to us, had gotten into the vinyl and inkjet side and were actually a competitor. Much like HP when they wanted to design and sell wraps for fleet customers financed into the vehicle with the dealer then ask us to install for less than I would ever consider, then try to sell me a printer and inks to compete with them lol.

 

[DL Signs]

I don't, but most of the paper print shops & copy shops around here have added digital printers to stay in the game, can't think of anyone who's gone the other way. I can't imagine there's that much money in the paper end compared to what it once was.
They don't compete with actual sign shops (Though they occasionally try to).

 

[victor bogdanov]

I kinda went through this without realizing but with screenprint shop since I got into dtf now and since appareal is getting more digital.

Have a screenprintshop that was buying tons of stickers from me as an add on for their customers, I get into dtf without really thinking im getting into apparel since I just see it as another form of digital printing.

They notice that im doing apparel and don't really like it but in the end now they're buying dtf from me as my primary focus is selling tranfers and not finished garments.

 

[Geneva Olson]

I don't, but most of the paper print shops & copy shops around here have added digital printers to stay in the game, can't think of anyone who's gone the other way. I can't imagine there's that much money in the paper end compared to what it once was.
They don't compete with actual sign shops (Though they occasionally try to).

i really wanted to know more about paper printers trying to compete with us. I am getting a lot of paper wholesalers getting into the vinyl business. But it looks like they are even leaving the paper game.

 

[DL Signs]

i really wanted to know more about paper printers trying to compete with us. I am getting a lot of paper wholesalers getting into the vinyl business. But it looks like they are even leaving the paper game.

Around here, the ones left that did paper are doing both, but still seem to be trying to focus on the paper end (maybe a better market around here?) None have made the switch 100% here yet (that I know of), but the couple of big ones have some big time capabilities. Doesn't surprise me that some are making the full switch, paper is dying out. Seems like a trend you picked up on that we maybe should be paying attention to.

Our bread & butter is big installs, decommissions, maintenance, repairs, etc, we have the buckets, cranes, some excavating equipment. Our graphics is mainly for our fleet customers, more of a sideline for the local market, but we still do make a decent amount off that. Would hate to see the half a dozen or more paper shops in the area suddenly go ALL vinyl.

 

[teampix]

While we do both, I don't think we're pertinent to your question. We cover both spectrums, paper/vinyl but we're more of an in house photo lab and banner printing facility for our team sports photography business established in 1982. We started a senior banner service when it became popular about 15 years ago. We don't serve the general public so any competition with sign shops is incidental.

 

[netsol]

I don't think it would have been more money (probably less), and I don't think I would have liked the situation. He's just a dude who fell into some money, started buying up print shops with zero know-how, doesn't know anything about the industry or the business. No thank you, not leaving a good situation for that.
My boss takes good care of me and I'm happy where I'm at. It was super sleezy for the guy to come into where I work and tell me he needs a production manager and ask me if I would come work for him. Then begged me not to tell my boss. Of course I told my boss, and then my boss cut him loose as a customer. I'm pretty loyal when it's earned, and it would really put my boss in a bad spot if I were to leave.

that all makes sense.
i thought you were being offered more money, or benefits or SOMETHING to make the offer attractive

VERY FEW people expect someone to change jobs for less money

 

[Stacey K]

I worked at print shop 25 years ago. We had printing presses and did a LOT of stationery and booklets, BC's, THE go-to place for wedding invites. Around 15 years ago they moved locations and bought several really nice high-speed printers and were mostly digital, you could email or bring in your thumb drive. About 8 years ago, they closed up shop. They had added vinyl printing in the end, maybe banners? My GUESS is that although they probably stole banner jobs from the local established sign shop, they didn't offer enough services to make a go of it. By that I mean vehicles application, larger signage, which I know they did not offer.

IDK how you can stay in business doing the below items unless you are printing for large companies in higher volume. The small to mid-business isn't ordering enough of the below to keep a person busy, at least I wouldn't think.

(copied from my local print shop)
brochure, postcards, and envelopes, in addition to: Announcements & Invites, Annual Reports, Award Certificates, Booklets, Brochures, Business Cards, Business Forms, Business Reply Envelopes, Calendars, Catalogs, Certificates, Envelopes, Flyers, Gift Certificates, Index Tabs, Labels, Letterhead, Manuals, Notepads & Memo Pads, Newsletters, Postcards, Posters, Programs, Pocket Folder, and Raffle Tickets

 

[4cpro]

So am certainly not a sign shop and don't get involved in fabication and installation but what classifies me as a paper printer vs. a sign shop. 38% of my business is digital print on paper, 18% is large format printing and the associated finishing.

I'd venture to say I'm pretty good at both. Last week we ran 1000 24x36 on coroplast and 500 22 x28 on coroplast. That was in addition to a bunch of foam, ultraboard, dibond, vinyl, retractable stands.....