Onyx - Kiss/CutContour order

[Saturn]

I am trying to get my Kiss cuts to cut before my CutContour cuts in Onyx using the Summa barcode server.

I do tons of CutContour cuts out of Onyx with the barcode and my Summa S2T with great success, but just can't seem to set things up so that Kiss cuts cut before them. They are properly named spot colors, on their own top layer. Rearranging path prefixes in Onyx hasn't been a silver bullet either. For whatever reason, the CutContour always wants to cut first.

Everything cuts right otherwise, Onyx will correctly override velocity and pressure for each cut type—but obviously cutting interior cuts after the sticker is already contour cut isn't going to work.

Any thoughts?

 

[Boudica]

I'm a newb at doing this succefully. And I too have an issue with onyx exporting my files with the cut layer in the right order. My workaround... I move the layers in cut server, save that. Then when suma reads the bar code... It's been cutting in the proper order.

 

[Saturn]

I'm not sure I can edit my files in the Cut Server. Do you mean the Layout tool?

I usually populate/layout my entire sheet in Illustrator, so the only thing Onyx does is add the regmarks and barcode.

I know there must be more mission critical stuff out there than my goofy sticker sheets that require things to score, cut, kiss, perf in the right order. Gotta be something I'm overlooking, but I swear I've been through everything a dozen times.

 

[White Haus]

I'm not sure I can edit my files in the Cut Server. Do you mean the Layout tool?

I usually populate/layout my entire sheet in Illustrator, so the only thing Onyx does is add the regmarks and barcode.

I know there must be more mission critical stuff out there than my goofy sticker sheets that require things to score, cut, kiss, perf in the right order. Gotta be something I'm overlooking, but I swear I've been through everything a dozen times.

You don't need to edit the file in Cut Server, just the order of the layers. Still not ideal if you have to manually make the change every time though.

I haven't had much luck/practice working with different cuts in Onyx but I do remember it being a bit cumbersome.

 

[Boudica]

My head scratcher is that I do have my cut layers in the right order in Illy. I've tried it both ways, and it doesn't seem to matter. Onyx puts the flex layer above the kiss layer. So, once the file hits cut server, I go in, click on the job, then click on the flex layer and hit the down arrow. Click on another file and cut server prompts to save the change I just made.
It's gotta be a setting deep into my onyx quickest. I just haven't found it yet.

 

[balstestrat]

My head scratcher is that I do have my cut layers in the right order in Illy. I've tried it both ways, and it doesn't seem to matter. Onyx puts the flex layer above the kiss layer. So, once the file hits cut server, I go in, click on the job, then click on the flex layer and hit the down arrow. Click on another file and cut server prompts to save the change I just made.
It's gotta be a setting deep into my onyx quickest. I just haven't found it yet.

What names do you use for your cuts? I'm not sure about this but the order might be possible to change in the cutter settings.
Quickset shouldn't matter...

 

[Boudica]

Here is a screen shot in Cut Server... arrows showing my layers. I have already moved the FLEX_CUT layer down here, but it consistently defaults to the top.

 

[Saturn]

You don't need to edit the file in Cut Server, just the order of the layers. Still not ideal if you have to manually make the change every time though.

I haven't had much luck/practice working with different cuts in Onyx but I do remember it being a bit cumbersome.

Yeah it all seems goofy since things are cutting correctly—just not in the right order. I think if I swapped my kiss cuts to CutContour, and my contour cuts to Kiss I would achieve the results I want... but I just can't believe there's not a way to easily order the prefixes without having to edit the file in Onyx. Maybe I just need to create two entirely new prefixes and use them as they seem to want to cut, rather than trying to control it with (what should be) the obvious default names.

For the record, I am using the free Onyx Gamaprint 19 that came with my 80600, and I think the Cut Server on it isn't maybe integrated with the rest of the RIP the same way as Thrive or Postershop— so there's not a way to edit my files unless I go into their even clunkier Layout Tool(?)... I am laying out and imposing my entire sheet in Illustrator and saving as a PDF, so the only thing Onyx does for me is add the Summa regmarks and barcode and that's just automated in the Production Manager RIP dealy-bob.

 

[Boudica]

So Saturn, in your artwork file, do you have the Kiss Cut (CutContour) layer above the perf (FLEX_CUT) Layer? Also, I don't know if it makes any difference here, but while trouble shooting through my initial problems, I have learned to uncheck all overrides in Onyx, and dial everything in at the plotter.

 

[Saturn]

So Saturn, in your artwork file, do you have the Kiss Cut (CutContour) layer above the perf (FLEX_CUT) Layer? Also, I don't know if it makes any difference here, but while trouble shooting through my initial problems, I have learned to uncheck all overrides in Onyx, and dial everything in at the plotter.

I don't use FlexCut, I just run my stickers on the Summa with a deeper "regular" cut as 1-3 passes—but yes, the Kiss cuts are above everything else in my artwork/file. Could it be that CutContour is always cut first in Onyx no matter what?

I also am not keen on overriding the cutter settings, but in this case where I have two specific pressures needed, and neither of them being FlexCut, I think it's my only option. Typically since all I have is one cut setting for 99% of jobs, I prefer to make adjustments at the cutter too.

I'm going to try another file without using any Onyx default cut prefixes and see where that gets me. Since I already know that I can get the cuts to otherwise do what they're supposed to, it shouldn't be an issue using (ABC) and (XYZ) as custom prefixes and just reversing them if they want to print one way or the other. I also know I can duplicate my cutter and save things separately so nothing is overriding my normal stuff.

Will report back with any "Aha!" moments.

 

[balstestrat]

You can use another user in the cutter to have different settings.

 

[Saturn]

You can use another user in the cutter to have different settings.

Yup yup!

edit: Although I guess that might only be useful if I were using the FlexCut as a second option? Since you can't load the Summa with settings for more than just a "regular" cut and a flexcut. Am I wrong? I don't think it would be useful for what I want, unless I'm missing something. Having Onyx simply override the cutter for these kiss cut jobs seems like a simpler solution.

 

[Saturn]

Cut Server, Cut Layer Settings.

I'm 99% sure I tried this repeatedly, and it seems obvious. I'm assuming operator error at some point, just trying to figure out where.... ;p

 

[Saturn]

Things seem to work just fine with 2 new custom prefixes, one for the top/first kiss cut, and one for the final die-cut.

They cut in the order I'm expecting and with the proper cutter overrides, using a new Quickset.

Dunno what's up with CutContour always wanting to print first. I'm sure I just missed something but I tried everything I thought was obvious...

 

[Goatshaver]

Things seem to work just fine with 2 new custom prefixes, one for the top/first kiss cut, and one for the final die-cut.

They cut in the order I'm expecting and with the proper cutter overrides, using a new Quickset.

Dunno what's up with CutContour always wanting to print first. I'm sure I just missed something but I tried everything I thought was obvious...

Question....Are your cuts stacked in illustrator or however you're making them. Do you make the first cut layer, then dupliacate it and just assign another spot color for the next one?

 

[Saturn]

Question....Are your cuts stacked in illustrator or however you're making them. Do you make the first cut layer, then dupliacate it and just assign another spot color for the next one?

It was more an issue with the order of the named spot colors were cutting, and not the order of the cuts themselves, if that makes sense.

There's no overlapping cuts that have uniquely named spot colors. Since these are sticker sheets there's the interior kiss cut for the peel-out stickers, and the second final outside die-cut.

I was having trouble getting the default CutContour to cut last. No matter how I rearranged things in Onyx it always wanted to cut first until I gave up and just used two newly created Prefixes that were not included as any of the default choices.

I know there's a dozen ways to skin a cat in this case, so I appreciate everyone's help and feedback.

 

[Bill DiStasio]

I am trying to get my Kiss cuts to cut before my CutContour cuts in Onyx using the Summa barcode server.

I do tons of CutContour cuts out of Onyx with the barcode and my Summa S2T with great success, but just can't seem to set things up so that Kiss cuts cut before them. They are properly named spot colors, on their own top layer. Rearranging path prefixes in Onyx hasn't been a silver bullet either. For whatever reason, the CutContour always wants to cut first.

Everything cuts right otherwise, Onyx will correctly override velocity and pressure for each cut type—but obviously cutting interior cuts after the sticker is already contour cut isn't going to work.

Any thoughts?

Could you put each cut on a different layer and put the layers in order instead of the cut itself? You would still have to assign to a layer, but one thing on each. Just guessing what I would try were I in your predicament. Good Luck!

 

[MNT_Printhead]

In relation to Onyx, I foun that they have a swatch set for AI you can download and install that has all of the spot colors labeled with the cuts. I only do kiss cutting, but am going to try out the other setting from the Onyx mad AI swatches - I am wondering if they have an order hierarchy that translate to the RIP's cut server.

 

[Saturn]

Could you put each cut on a different layer and put the layers in order instead of the cut itself? You would still have to assign to a layer, but one thing on each. Just guessing what I would try were I in your predicament. Good Luck!

I don't really have trouble with the order of the cuts in the actual cut file. I get pretty deep into the details of how my paths are created and tweaked. The issue is more in the RIP software when there's two distinct cut styles called out, like Kiss and CutContour. They aren't cutting in the expected order, no matter how I arrange things. I solved this by using two custom prefixes instead. I think CutContour is a bit of a hardwired default, so it can be harder to manipulate it.

 

[Saturn]

In relation to Onyx, I foun that they have a swatch set for AI you can download and install that has all of the spot colors labeled with the cuts. I only do kiss cutting, but am going to try out the other setting from the Onyx mad AI swatches - I am wondering if they have an order hierarchy that translate to the RIP's cut server.

I don't have any trouble creating a CMYK spot color with a new name, but the hierarchy thought is interesting!