Outbid by competition - fight or flight?

[Notarealsignguy]

I'm trying to visualize this sign that gnubler was gonna make that could be done profitably and still leave $1500 on the table.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Yea, give us some specs gnub...

 

[ChaseO]

I have been underbid on jobs that were spec'd, and then I see the final product that isn't to specs... It happens all the time, but what are you gonna do? I don't have time to tattle tale on other shops, nor do I care to. The ones that get me are when customer says, " I'd like a quote for channel letters" so I quote it and then I see the sign some time later and it's a very basic cabinet. I could have quoted a cabinet too. I know a lot of shops that like to quote good, better, best scenarios, but I simply don't have time for that. Some customers need explanations and ballparks/quotes to know what they want, but others know what they want so I just quote that.

 

[gnubler]

Agree with the above, and look forward to seeing the finished products done by the other shop. They do good work and have been around for 30+ years as I mentioned, so curious why my bid is so much higher than theirs (supposedly).

Not going to list all the details, but the bid was for 2 backlit cabinet inserts 10ftx3ft about 15 feet off the ground, building sign 12-15ft off the ground (boom req'd for both), interior logo signage and menu boards, exterior drive-thru menu, window and wall graphics, and design time for everything. I estimated all the signage around $3300 and installs $1500, giving them the option to install themselves if they wanted. I honestly thought my bid was reasonable, no way could I knock $1500 off to compete.

 

[Gino]

Good way is to be using a flatbed. No vinyl cost, less ink cost and no monkey time involved with everyone of the signs mentioned. No laminating and no laying the vinyl onto all the different substrates. You can easily save big bucks with a flatbed. Our first job, using our flatbed saved us about $7,000 on a $22,000 job in materials and labor. In this case, nothing was outside. All indoor signs.

 

[Johnny Best]

Good way is to be using a flatbed. No vinyl cost, less ink cost and no monkey time involved with everyone of the signs mentioned. No laminating and no laying the vinyl onto all the different substrates. You can easily save big bucks with a flatbed. Our first job, using our flatbed saved us about $7,000 on a $22,000 job in materials and labor. In this case, nothing was outside. All indoor signs.

So Gino, how did you lose that Haitian restaurant sign across the street?

 

[gnubler]

Maybe someday. I don't have the volume to justify such a purchase and neither do any of my local competitors. There's not a flatbed printer within my entire county, as far as I know.

 

[Gino]

So Gino, how did you lose that Haitian restaurant sign across the street?

He asked me for a 3' x 12' electric sign, so I quoted him on that. He ended up getting a cutout piece of acm. Quite a big difference. Like mentioned earlier. it's a p!sser when someone asks you to bid something one way and end up going in an altogether different direction and you didn't get to bid it the second way.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Agree with the above, and look forward to seeing the finished products done by the other shop. They do good work and have been around for 30+ years as I mentioned, so curious why my bid is so much higher than theirs (supposedly).

Not going to list all the details, but the bid was for 2 backlit cabinet inserts 10ftx3ft about 15 feet off the ground, building sign 12-15ft off the ground (boom req'd for both), interior logo signage and menu boards, exterior drive-thru menu, window and wall graphics, and design time for everything. I estimated all the signage around $3300 and installs $1500, giving them the option to install themselves if they wanted. I honestly thought my bid was reasonable, no way could I knock $1500 off to compete.

$5k sounds reasonable to me. I lost a bid a few weeks ago to another sign company that bid it HALF the price I did. Turns out the other company was one that I do subcontract installs for, and the owner told me his staff mis-quoted it. He wasn't very happy when he found out what I quoted her. At the end of the day, I ended up being the one that installed her sign anyway

 

[Notarealsignguy]

So Gino, how did you lose that Haitian restaurant sign across the street?

Gino tried to sell him the used Mexican restaurant sign he had in the dumpster and a drawer full of Chinese takeout menus from his desk drawer.

 

[visual800]

so many times have I bid on jobs using great materials and awesome designs only to be bid out by flat vinyl on acm. Pople do NOT care anymore. They want cheap, quick crap. If Im bidding and told "we got another bid for lots less I just walk away because i already know what decision they will make

 

[Stacey K]

I had a couple people in the past tell me after they got a quote that another shop was lower - only to try and get my price down. NOT saying they are doing that but it's possible.

I think the 4th comment said to ask them for the spec sheet. I have already asked people how much they paid in the past for vehicles, etc. and many people are usually fine telling you the price, they usually low ball it a little if it's verbal.

I don't think it hurts to ask the customer, if nothing else tell them you want to see where you went wrong and maybe you overlooked a cheaper material you could use. I had a customer who told me he got a price for a wrap but when they were ready to start the project the sign shop failed to tell them it would be another $1500 for design...perhaps it's the same situation? Keep us updated.

 

[ColorCrest]

I know the other shop in question and they've been around for 30+ years, so definitely not newbies.

The other shop may have much lower costs than you might imagine. Also because of their experience, they might have provided a good, better, best option for the customer to decide.

Fortunately, it seems you'll have the opportunity to see exactly what you've been up against once the new signs are up.

 

[gnubler]

Pople do NOT care anymore. They want cheap, quick crap. If Im bidding and told "we got another bid for lots less I just walk away because i already know what decision they will make

Yup, I'm seeing this more and more. Has anyone else noticed a major shift compared to two years ago? People were literally throwing money at me, walking in with bank bags full of cash, and I had more work than I could handle. Lately it seems like I'm having to work a lot harder to get an order going, and having to offer cheaper options because there's no budget for fancier signs. Please don't start a political debate now...

 

[gnubler]

Like mentioned earlier. it's a p!sser when someone asks you to bid something one way and end up going in an altogether different direction and you didn't get to bid it the second way.

I often wonder that when this happens that it might be my competitors badmouthing me to curry favor with the new customer. I would never do that to my competitors, but I'm sure it happens.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Yeah, I recently bid an existing client for removing 2 existing backlit faces, they were moving out and told me head office would not allow them to just flip the faces around, they needed new panels so it didn't show through when it was lit (very large insurance company) It required a bucket truck, 2 trips (1 to measure, and a return trip to install) new plexi etc...

I submitted the quote and was told it was astronomical compared to another quote he got, turns out once he saw my quote he decided to just have the other shop flip the faces, but never told me to requote it, grrrrrr

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Yup, I'm seeing this more and more. Has anyone else noticed a major shift compared to two years ago? People were literally throwing money at me, walking in with bank bags full of cash, and I had more work than I could handle. Lately it seems like I'm having to work a lot harder to get an order going, and having to offer cheaper options because there's no budget for fancier signs. Please don't start a political debate now...

On the flipside, people spent 2 years being bent over a barrel by contractors and suppliers. Now availability has loosened a bit and they're treading carefully.

 

[gnubler]

Ever been outbid on a job by the customer himself? I went on a site visit for this sign last December, the customer flaked on me, and I never bothered following up on it. Sign went up a few days ago and I'm pretty sure it's not the fine craftwork of an actual sign shop - check out this small snippet of it...so bad. I called one of my competitors and she doesn't know who did it, so I'm guessing DIY.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Ever been outbid on a job by the customer himself? I went on a site visit for this sign last December, the customer flaked on me, and I never bothered following up on it. Sign went up a few days ago and I'm pretty sure it's not the fine craftwork of an actual sign shop - check out this small snippet of it...so bad. I called one of my competitors and she doesn't know who did it, so I'm guessing DIY.

View attachment 164765

Maybe the installer was distracted by the college tail walking around campus.... Happens to the best of us.

 

[JamesLam]

Ever been outbid on a job by the customer himself? I went on a site visit for this sign last December, the customer flaked on me, and I never bothered following up on it. Sign went up a few days ago and I'm pretty sure it's not the fine craftwork of an actual sign shop - check out this small snippet of it...so bad. I called one of my competitors and she doesn't know who did it, so I'm guessing DIY.

View attachment 164765

New woke typography rules state that no loop, swash, tail or descender shall be placed in a demeaning position below the baseline. I think they should be applauded for their efforts. Anyone have a rainbow sticker they can offer up as a prize?