10sacer
New Member
Send her a .webp file
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People asking for logos...I'm getting irritated
- Thread starter Stacey K
- Start date
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
When people send me a jpeg of their logo because they can't find the vector, I usually send them back the vector and tell them to hold onto it. I'm confident in my service and quality, if someone doesn't appreciate my efforts then they are welcome to go somewhere else. There's always another to take their spot. Layouts are a different story.
bcxprint420
Sign & Banner Xpress
There is a little known law that you may use and i have it on every invoice i issue. All artwork is the owner of the creator the rights to reproduce that artwork more specifically. So while u may have charged a design fee that designs rights are retained by the creator until they sign those rights over in writing for free or for a fee. This is in the US copyright law.
Notarealsignguy
Arial - it's almost helvetica
Graphics aren't copy. You don't own someone's trademark even if you created it either. At best you could claim theft of services.
Craig Keller
New Member
we dont charge for artwork so e say its for internal use only..
Boudica
Back to "educational purposes"
So, interesting. We have produced, installed a custom city bus wrap for a small college town. We've actually done several busses for this small college town, but there was one that was different. We worked with the designer that was commissioned to design it. This was a couple of years ago. Said designer recently paid a random social call. Boss was out of town, and during my visit with this very talented graphic designer... I mentioned that they were wanting to do another bus. He was like, what? They only paid me for one. If they want to do another on, they should kick me another $500 bucks. He wasn't that worried, just a little offended they didn't ask him. So, I mentioned This to my boss. Found out its going to be a totally different kind of bus ( fully electric). I'm like... So I need to monkey with the artwork to make it fit? Yah, no .. would feel more comfortable if we brought in the original designer for this. My boss totally respects my ethics. So we will be bringing in said designer, and he will get any compensation he contractually deserves.
caribmike
Retired with a Side Hustle
I run into this issue from time to time being the market leader in a small community also. I would never send a competitor a vector and rarely ever even give those to the customers unless I absolutely have to. I do send a JPG that's usually just barely enough to get them by and maybe just a little less so just to be a PITA. Most often, I contact the client myself and try to swing the business my way which is frequently successful.
Always charge something, I charge when ever I open my program
kcollinsdesign
Old member
When I vectorize a logo for a customer, I charge for the work and offer the customer all rights. It is a line item on the invoice. I send them the artwork in a logo package which includes the source file (usually vector art but sometimes a combination of vector and bitmap files). It becomes the property of the client, and if another vendor needs the files they can get them from the customer. I can't send them out because they don't belong to me.
If the original client wants me to transfer the art to another vendor (and gives me permission), I will charge a $45.00 transfer fee to the vendor. If they don't want to pay that, they can get the art from the original customer for free (or whatever the customer wants to charge).
That said, I usually will just contact the original customer and offer to send the files to the vendor for free (with their permission). It doesn't come up that often, and building relationships is important to me.
If the original client wants me to transfer the art to another vendor (and gives me permission), I will charge a $45.00 transfer fee to the vendor. If they don't want to pay that, they can get the art from the original customer for free (or whatever the customer wants to charge).
That said, I usually will just contact the original customer and offer to send the files to the vendor for free (with their permission). It doesn't come up that often, and building relationships is important to me.
John Miller
New Member
If they paid you to create the art then it belongs to them. All the bad quality, etc. etc. etc. solutions will work, but if you were paid already the best you can legitimately do is charge a file retrieval/conveyance fee.
Stacey K
I like making signs
I like this solution!
Medina Signs
Old Member
What an interesting thread - Great tips on how to be evil - great tips on how to be charitable and kind.
The best tip - was to contact the client to get permission to send the art to the other shop and before agreeing to do so - find out why they didn't call you. "What am I doing wrong and why am I losing your business" - let them know you care about your relationship.
They did pay for the art after all. Transfer fees sound reasonable, unless you are concerned about alienating your customer.
Anyway, it grinds me when this happens and in the past I have refused to send art that I drew up without a charge. It was for a City and I told them that this was my work product. They didn't argue the point and they are still a good customer.
The best tip - was to contact the client to get permission to send the art to the other shop and before agreeing to do so - find out why they didn't call you. "What am I doing wrong and why am I losing your business" - let them know you care about your relationship.
They did pay for the art after all. Transfer fees sound reasonable, unless you are concerned about alienating your customer.
Anyway, it grinds me when this happens and in the past I have refused to send art that I drew up without a charge. It was for a City and I told them that this was my work product. They didn't argue the point and they are still a good customer.
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
If this is the person doing the banner, I would tell her to have your customer contact you for the logo. Don't just hand out logos to people that other's have paid for.
Now, the logistics of if your customer is even owed the design, to me, it's about being pragmatic. If there isn't a contract that stipulates to such, that's on you. There should be a contract that stipulates that all artwork belongs to you or that you send the artwork to the customer after payment etc. It's all about not leaving a bad taste in one's mouth. Especially in a small town. Even if they are wrong about getting the design when there is no contract saying one way or the other. Word does tend to get around. At that point, it's going to be a battle of the reputations.
I, however, would not be passive aggressive and muck around with the logo etc. I have had some people do that before and when I get the file, I let the customer know (and I can tell based on the original finished product and the file that I am given that it has been mucked around, it is painfully obvious even to the customer when I show them how the new machine file looks compared to their product) and you run that risk that that too makes the rounds in a small town.
Other suggestions (one actually specifically in particular if you keep in mind that this is coming from me), I for sure wouldn't say, even though I get the joke, there are a couple of big tells for those that even just stop and think about it, they will soon know that you were shining them on. Which again, gets around in a small town.
In short, I personally would stay away with passive aggressive solutions.
Sometimes, no matter what you do, can cause a stink, but it all boils down to how much blow back you want to deal with.
In this particular case, if the dance studio is your customer and that's the logo being requested, I would contact the dance studio and say that so and so wants their logo and you were wondering what that was about. Let them explain to you that they are jumping ship. Then drop your bomb about design and ownership, but note that you make banners. If they want to jump ship, send them the file for a fee.
For the case of banners containing multiple sponsors like for a golf tournament, you have to realize that YOUR customer didn't order the banner. It was ordered by whoever is putting on the tournament. In those cases I ask what size the logo will be used and send a transparent png 72 dpi at final size.
For the case of banners containing multiple sponsors like for a golf tournament, you have to realize that YOUR customer didn't order the banner. It was ordered by whoever is putting on the tournament. In those cases I ask what size the logo will be used and send a transparent png 72 dpi at final size.
2B
Active Member
Did you create the logos from conception or did you "clean-up" what the customer brought you?
if you created from the initial concept,
* Send her the design as a PSD file, this is a raster and most "novice" designers do not know how to correctly resize and remove the pixelation
if you "cleaned - up" what was sent to you,
* Send her the file that was sent to you, and let them sort out how to work the file
Either way, send it to her QUICKLY, but at your convenience. IE, while on the phone or waiting for a print to finish, etc...
You want to show the END customer that you are willing to help, as best as you can with Email time stamps
If anything is said about the quality, simply state, I can show / you have seen my completed products / work using this same design, please let me know if you need products with my proven quality
NOTE: if you created the design from conception and the end customer did NOT buy the copyrights, make it VERY CLEAR in the E-mail who owns the artwork.
Here is what we use for artwork
if you created from the initial concept,
* Send her the design as a PSD file, this is a raster and most "novice" designers do not know how to correctly resize and remove the pixelation
if you "cleaned - up" what was sent to you,
* Send her the file that was sent to you, and let them sort out how to work the file
Either way, send it to her QUICKLY, but at your convenience. IE, while on the phone or waiting for a print to finish, etc...
You want to show the END customer that you are willing to help, as best as you can with Email time stamps
If anything is said about the quality, simply state, I can show / you have seen my completed products / work using this same design, please let me know if you need products with my proven quality
NOTE: if you created the design from conception and the end customer did NOT buy the copyrights, make it VERY CLEAR in the E-mail who owns the artwork.
Here is what we use for artwork
Evan Gillette
New Member
I run into this frequently as well. How we treat it usually depends on customer history. If it is a low-value account (customer) that is shopping around I will usually just quickly send over whatever files they provided initially, I'm being helpful but not giving away my work (assuming I have invested time into creating output-ready files). If its a good account I have no problem sending vector files or whatever they need because usually I just ask them and they tell me upfront what its for. A good customer will actually explain what they want and why so you can get them the appropriate files, usually, they won't know the difference.
Now if I charged the customer to design a logo or something like that and they paid for the design then I have no problem sending it, they have ownership rights and have paid for our work. It helps to be clear when you charge design time if it includes rights to the design files or not. Whenever I design something where I am specifically sending digital files as a deliverable I put a statement in with the invoice that explains the customers rights to the design along with "we will keep the files in our system for 5 years and can provide them upon request for a small access fee when requested". This usually makes it sound more like a benefit because you know most small business owners lose those files within two years.
Now if I charged the customer to design a logo or something like that and they paid for the design then I have no problem sending it, they have ownership rights and have paid for our work. It helps to be clear when you charge design time if it includes rights to the design files or not. Whenever I design something where I am specifically sending digital files as a deliverable I put a statement in with the invoice that explains the customers rights to the design along with "we will keep the files in our system for 5 years and can provide them upon request for a small access fee when requested". This usually makes it sound more like a benefit because you know most small business owners lose those files within two years.
Black Star
Not A New Member
I used to have a customer that would call me once a month and ask if I could send his logo to random places. Some of these places are my competition. I did it that quite a few times. I finally told him that I'm going to send the file to the other companies and I'll send it to him so he has a copy and can forward that on to where ever it needs to be sent. He called me a month later and asked me to send it somewhere again. I told him no and I reminded him that I emailed the file over to him so he can do it himself. He hasn't come back and I do not miss the POS.
Stacy, your a nice person, just send it. I would recommend sending it to the original customer and letting them deal with whoever they want to send it to.
We don't charge for artwork redraws, but we do keep all the original artwork the customer sends us.
If they send us a 72dpi jpeg and if someone else would request the logo, that is what we would send to the person who requested it.
It's the same file the customer sent us, and I would tell them that's what the original customer sent us.
In my opinion you are wasting your time dealing with people who are not your customer.
Always refer them back to your customer and the customer has to make the request from you.
They're the only one who ever employed you or gave you money.
I know this sounds preachy, but lying never works. Like Old Abe said:
"If you always tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said"
People-the toughest business in the world. But interesting all the same.
We don't charge for artwork redraws, but we do keep all the original artwork the customer sends us.
If they send us a 72dpi jpeg and if someone else would request the logo, that is what we would send to the person who requested it.
It's the same file the customer sent us, and I would tell them that's what the original customer sent us.
In my opinion you are wasting your time dealing with people who are not your customer.
Always refer them back to your customer and the customer has to make the request from you.
They're the only one who ever employed you or gave you money.
I know this sounds preachy, but lying never works. Like Old Abe said:
"If you always tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said"
People-the toughest business in the world. But interesting all the same.