Power line right of way.. can't do a sign?

[danhayes1188]

That seems to be the way to go, thanks!

 

[JBurton]

We had this come up once that we actually dealt with it 'properly'. There were about 3 on site meetings with DOT, Entergy, and and electrical company with insulated lifts. Entergy says they can't depower the lines, DOT says we can't set up like this or that due to traffic, and the electrical company stood around. In the end we had to pay for a rep from DOT and Entergy, as well as the lift and operator from the electrical company, so my guy could ride in their basket while their expensive insulated crane held the sign, and my guy could undo the bolts (The electrical company insisted we do this, because it's a sign...). I believe it was something like $30k worth of charges, and the customer used something like title insurance to cover most of it because the once-conforming sign was not in the right of way until the highway expanded, and entergy installed new power lines right next to the cabinet but did not attempt to 'clear' the right of way at any point.

 

[MikePro]

i wouldn't bother without some collaberation with power company
...but if you do, make sure your coworker wears chapstick

 

[JBurton]

i wouldn't bother without some collaberation with power company
...but if you do, make sure your coworker wears chapstick

Ah, the kiss of life. Unfortunately I'd decline help from my crew if given the choice. Just push me back into whatever knocked me out, it'll defib me just fine!

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Gay

 

[JBurton]

Gay

It's only gay if he survives. Otherwise it's necrophilia...

 

[ChaseO]

He survived. That photo is from an incredible story. Back to the OP, the sign is probably getting service from someone who doesn't know the dangers. I'd let them keep doing it if you don't want to. That is odd that it's so close to the lines without anyone ever making them move it. We had a road widened a while back and someone from the state asked us to bid removal of replacement of every sign in the way. I think they took three bids per sign, took an average and paid the sign owners. Then it was on the owner to call whatever sign shop they wanted, and remove or move their signs by a certain date.

 

[TradeBalanceBoss]

I did a sign like that once. It was right at 10' (maybe less) --- I was in between the building and the powerline on a articulating lift.

We had this come up once that we actually dealt with it 'properly'. There were about 3 on site meetings with DOT, Entergy, and and electrical company with insulated lifts. Entergy says they can't depower the lines, DOT says we can't set up like this or that due to traffic, and the electrical company stood around. In the end we had to pay for a rep from DOT and Entergy, as well as the lift and operator from the electrical company, so my guy could ride in their basket while their expensive insulated crane held the sign, and my guy could undo the bolts (The electrical company insisted we do this, because it's a sign...). I believe it was something like $30k worth of charges, and the customer used something like title insurance to cover most of it because the once-conforming sign was not in the right of way until the highway expanded, and entergy installed new power lines right next to the cabinet but did not attempt to 'clear' the right of way at any point.

My goodness gracious...

 

[TradeBalanceBoss]

He survived. That photo is from an incredible story. Back to the OP, the sign is probably getting service from someone who doesn't know the dangers. I'd let them keep doing it if you don't want to. That is odd that it's so close to the lines without anyone ever making them move it. We had a road widened a while back and someone from the state asked us to bid removal of replacement of every sign in the way. I think they took three bids per sign, took an average and paid the sign owners. Then it was on the owner to call whatever sign shop they wanted, and remove or move their signs by a certain date.

I bet that came out to less per sign than JBurton's example...

 

[amgraph]

This was the location..

https://www.google.com/maps/@31.624...4!1sCfjchfMcNPSjMThTjBUv8g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

The red lines and everything above the transformer is Primary. I think in TX that can be up to 46KV but is likely 12Kv. The green and everything below the transformer is secondary (mains voltage) and should be 120/240 depending on what it goes to. In this case they appear to be open wire secondaries which are bare. The yellow and everything below it goes to comms (tele, cable and internet), typically low voltage 5V). Transmission is 66KV and up. The line I was working on today had a MAD of 15ft, occasionally we work on 500Kv and that has a MAD of 25ft.
In the location I work it is relatively easy to get a secondary shut off to a location. You make a call and they get a lineman out and shut it down. If your nice and he's a good guy he'll wait around while you quickly finish your job. Otherwise it will be nighttime or the next day to restore power. For reference our utility serves 15 Million customers and control 50,000 sq miles.
10ft MAD is for the distribution, they may be coated but it's rare to insulate primary lines. Insulated secondary and service drops are rated for contact but OSHA/CalOSHA MAD is 13". Open wire secondaries are 13".
Sounds like a wise decision to forgo the job. The TX grid always makes me anxious when I'm there.

 

[ProSignTN]

Our local utility is very cooperative working with us on signs near power lines. Notice the orange insulators on the high voltage wire near our install. When the tension comes off the load line, it's all down hill from there.

 

[JBurton]

Notice the orange insulators on the high voltage wire near our install.

My understanding is that these aren't insulators, they are for visibility for the folks working around them. Last time we asked our local utility to do such a thing, they told us they quit doing that years ago because folks thought that meant it was safe to be around.

 

[Hal D]

I had a customer a little while back that had a 6'x12' pole sign, flexface material that needed to be redone. When I did the survey I noticed the sign was like 3-4 feet from 3-phase distribution lines... lines were pretty thick and had good size insulators so I assumed some hefty power when through them. I called the power company to find out what the minimum approach clearance was on those lines and they told me that we're not allowed to get within 10 feet of the lines... Well, the sign was 4' at best... so how are we to service it? Even if I was on the other side we were still in the right of way. Only way I could think of doing it was to remove the cabinet but that would require the guy that welds it to STILL be in the right of way.

I told the customer this was a no-go... and he actually wanted us to just do the side of the sign that faced away from the power lines, which I did. I asked another sign company in town and they said they have turned down jobs that were too close to lines too.

Question is, have you ever run into this problem before? If so how did you handle it?

It's VERY rare I see a sign so close to power lines...and this job is long done, but still curious as to what you would do or have done.

Freestanding signs in most all municipalities require minimum setbacks away from the power lines, which in most cases is also the D.O.T. Right of Way. Also, the sign usually has to be installed with the leading or outside edge of the cabinet a certain distance inside the property line. Example, here in Santa Rosa County, Florida, all freestanding signs must meet the minimum setbacks of 10' from the D.O.T. Right of Way and 5' inside the property boundary line simultaneously. So, it's not uncommon here for freestanding signs having to be installed 20' to 25' from the power lines. That's just how the local sign ordinances are written in Santa Rosa County and Escambia County, FL.

I don't know what the setback requirements are for freestanding signs in your city or county jurisdiction but in my four county area, this sign would be considered as illegal and Code Enforcement would require that the sign be removed and reinstalled per the mandated setback distances. If I was in your situation, I would politely tell the customer that I wouldn't be able to do the work/repairs on the sign because of it's location and proximity to the power lines. Other than the legalities of the matter, there's no use putting yourself or your installers in harms way and in danger of getting electrocuted.

I hope this has been helpful

PS, the sign you're referring to in your post is most likely an older sign that was installed back before your building code and sign ordinance were updated and revised, i.e., "Grandfathered" under an old permit or maybe no permit at all. Things like this have happened.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Freestanding signs in most all municipalities require minimum setbacks away from the power lines, which in most cases is also the D.O.T. Right of Way. Also, the sign usually has to be installed with the leading or outside edge of the cabinet a certain distance inside the property line. Example, here in Santa Rosa County, Florida, all freestanding signs must meet the minimum setbacks of 10' from the D.O.T. Right of Way and 5' inside the property boundary line simultaneously. So, it's not uncommon here for freestanding signs having to be installed 20' to 25' from the power lines. That's just how the local sign ordinances are written in Santa Rosa County and Escambia County, FL.

I don't know what the setback requirements are for freestanding signs in your city or county jurisdiction but in my four county area, this sign would be considered as illegal and Code Enforcement would require that the sign be removed and reinstalled per the mandated setback distances. If I was in your situation, I would politely tell the customer that I wouldn't be able to do the work/repairs on the sign because of it's location and proximity to the power lines. Other than the legalities of the matter, there's no use putting yourself or your installers in harms way and in danger of getting electrocuted.

I hope this has been helpful

PS, the sign you're referring to in your post is most likely an older sign that was installed back before your building code and sign ordinance were updated and revised, i.e., "Grandfathered" under an old permit or maybe no permit at all. Things like this have happened.

This post was made almost 7 years ago.

 

[Hal D]

My bad and my apologies. I get email alerts from Signs101. Sometimes I read and respond to posts but don't always check original post dates. Thanks

This post was made almost 7 years ago.

 

[Boudica]

This post was made almost 7 years ago.

In Hal's defense, this thread has been active all week.

 

[Hal D]

In Hal's defense, this thread has been active all week.

Thanks for the kind words, Boudica

 

[Hal D]

He survived. That photo is from an incredible story. Back to the OP, the sign is probably getting service from someone who doesn't know the dangers. I'd let them keep doing it if you don't want to. That is odd that it's so close to the lines without anyone ever making them move it. We had a road widened a while back and someone from the state asked us to bid removal of replacement of every sign in the way. I think they took three bids per sign, took an average and paid the sign owners. Then it was on the owner to call whatever sign shop they wanted, and remove or move their signs by a certain date.

Years back, I listened to a guy that came on one of the local radio talk shows. He said he used to work for Alabama Power Company, got severely electrocuted while working on a power line but he survived. He also said when he finally came to at the hospital, his memory had been completely erased. The guy didn't know who he was and didn't even recognize his own name. He was married with children and had no memory of them. Couldn't even recall anything else about his life, his parents, siblings, where he was born or raised, his job, etc. The poor guy basically lost his entire identity and had to start over from scratch. I don't know how the story ended but wish that I did.

 

[JBurton]

I don't know how the story ended but wish that I did.

We had a gentleman working for our local utility, his insulated bucket was mistakenly loaded with the wrong hydraulic fluid. His truck grounded out, blew off one arm and one leg. He got a desk job for the utility and worked well into retirement. His title was something along the lines of safety manager...

 

[Hal D]

We had a gentleman working for our local utility, his insulated bucket was mistakenly loaded with the wrong hydraulic fluid. His truck grounded out, blew off one arm and one leg. He got a desk job for the utility and worked well into retirement. His title was something along the lines of safety manager...

Electricity has always scared the heck out of me. I have nothing but total respect for all of the sign installers I've worked with over the years. Whenever I'd got out and survey a property for a potential new pylon sign, I'd always photo the power lines from different angles and make notes of their location for safety purposes. If I was ever in doubt, I'd put it back on my boss to go by the jobsite and do his own evaluation.