pvc vs. dibond

[Signed Out]

i have read that pvc or sintra board is good for outdoor use, and i've read that it is for indoor use only. So i turn the question to those with more experience, is pvc board ok for outdoor use? Also has anyone had any problems using the cheaper versions of sintra or dibond? i have been using a nudo product that they call diebond, looks and cuts just like the real dibond to me but it is like half the price. any input would be helpful

 

[Marlene]

I wouldn't use 3mm Sintra outside. I've seen it used and it breaks and cracks. the thicker stuff seems OK. I bought a blank that was 1" thick and it is holding up just fine.

Dibond works great. not sure about the cheaper stuff as I have never used it.

 

[wes70]

Marlene is right. Depending on the conditions, 3mm pvc will expand, warp and crack when used outdoors. I have had very good results with pvc 10mm and thicker for over 12 years with no problems. As for acm, there are many brands that are comparable with dibond and hold up just as well at a much lower cost. I myself use Alupanel and Polymetal

 

[Pat Whatley]

Thin PVC is useless outdoors. Even 1/2" panels will warp if not adhered well.

I use the mess out of 3mm Dibond type stuff and have never had a problem. Isn't NUDO's version called polymetal? Brqand name doesn't seem to matter, they've all provided consistently good results for us.

 

[Gino]

The cheap knock-offs seem to be from China. No PVC or similar product are really a good outdoor product... anyway, not for long term. Two years or less. You'll find exceptions, but as a rule, use a product meant for outdoor use... at least it will have some warranty.

 

[GoodPeopleFlags]

We use the Polymetal (dibond, same stuff) and would never consider PVC for outdoor use. I used to work at a shop that insisted on using the 1/2" stuff for 4'x8' real estate signs. The boards must've weighed 100lbs! Polymetal is lighter and lasts longer.

 

[WrapperX]

....I myself use Alupanel and Polymetal

+1

 

[HulkSmash]

Can't use PVC outdoors here in colorado. It'll last about a month - 2 tops. The weather here is so dramatic, it'll make it expand and shrink... it'll crack in no time.

 

[Mike Paul]

Careful with some of those Dibond knock-offs. They run $40 -$80 for as 4x8 and are not created equal. Get the specs on the aluminum thickness from your distributor because they very quite a bit. One of my distributors sells a 3mm panel that only has a 1 year rating. Some others are 3 and some 5 year. True Dibond is 10 year.

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

as stated they are very different materials...pvc sheeting and aluminum composite sheets are not even comparable in my opinion. they both have their applications. but if we are just asking a general question aluminum composite materials will last much longer than pvc sheeting, however, there are scenarios and situations that i would prefer pvc for reasons other than longevity.

 

[Biker Scout]

There is a distinct different between the ACM panels you speak of. (Aluminum Composite Material) as they are known in the industry.

The grade of aluminum, the thickness of the aluminum, as well as the polyethelyne core they are laminated to. On some of the cheaper stuff, if you bend the corner it will actually break the aluminum and the core. Dibond will break if you bend it fast enough, but it mostly just bends before a failure.

Dibond is also the flattest material on the market. The others, not so much. However, 90% of the general sign work that most shops undertake where they are offering an ACM as the sign substrate, any brand will do just fine. Just know their limitations and handle accordingly. I always bill as if I'm going to use Dibond (the brand name) then determine the application. Are they going to be CNC cut letters, or mounted on a wall, or hung where the panels flatness and rigidity come into play.

So unless you are fabricating multi-dimentional, CNC Cut objects/projects out of ACM, then you will be just fine working with the other brands. Look into how many things are actually fabricated out of Dibond, and you will be amazed!

Dibond has a longer warranty. Something to consider.

 

[k.a.s.]

To do somthing outside I look to ACM first. DiBond is prolly better if it needs to be bent, Polymetal is good except I had some red sheets fade horribly in less than two years. As far as ACM I use all Max Metal from Grimco, its cheap and I've prolly went through 100+ sheets with no problems. I use the 6mm if I need a thicker sign.

As far as PVC, I have had good success with PVC in certain instances. I've used .25 or .5 inch white pieces to make small signs, mostly stuff that isnt expected to last for years but it has in many cases. Also I have signs where I used PVC for letters or other elements that are attached to a sign of a different material, I've never had a problem with these either. Paint will prolong the PVC life, and the white is the only color that you ever want to put out uncoated.

In a northern climate I belive mounting is the key, in most cases I use PVC in an instance that it can be mounted with a flexible adhesive only. That way it can expand and contract and won't break. What you dont want to do is screw it to a wall or somthing like that, it will crack around the screws.

Also I just found one brand (Excell I belive) that makes a PVC with a really nice high gloss top and bottom, its supposed to be outdoor durable. But I still wouldnt hard mount it.

Thats my experiance in Ohio, SignManiac makes some awesome PVC signs, but hes in Florida.

Kevin

 

[SAI Stephan]

I agree with Kevin. Flexible adhesive always helps for outdoor application to eliminate stresscracking during expansion/shrinkage caused by temperature variances. If the cracks come mainly from uv-influence, try out the Simopor-digital, foam PVC sheet (similar product than SINTRA). But it is uv-resistant and static controlled which would help to extend the lifetime of your sign.


Stephan

 

[SightLine]

Also - on PVC (I doubt the brand will matter) - black will NOT work well if exposed to sunlight. It warps like mad very fast - even half inch thick. I know this from experience.