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Recommendations on Sign Shop Management Software?

jfiscus

Rap Master
We had a custom piece of software written for us around 8 years ago to manage our business/production here, but we are really starting to outgrow it.
We are now looking at migrating over to a different software that is more robust and easier to manage.

What software is everyone here using? What DON'T you like about it?

The best choice I have found so far is ShopVox.
 

Signscorp

New Member
We use trello, basically in the same layout as shopvox. The flexibility is really nice since we work with so many different materials.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
We had a custom piece of software written for us around 8 years ago to manage our business/production here, but we are really starting to outgrow it.
We are now looking at migrating over to a different software that is more robust and easier to manage.

What software is everyone here using? What DON'T you like about it?

The best choice I have found so far is ShopVox.
what aspects have you outgrown? I have found that since this industry is so diverse none of the "stock" solutions work for us, we hired a developer to create us something in filemaker, and it's working well so far, I like that it can be upgraded as we need to.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
what aspects have you outgrown? I have found that since this industry is so diverse none of the "stock" solutions work for us, we hired a developer to create us something in filemaker, and it's working well so far, I like that it can be upgraded as we need to.
I have to agree with this and given that this is a custom made solution for you, if the dev did everything right, it should be scalable to handle your needs now. Now, if it's the case that the dev is no longer able to be reached and your not able to have it tweaked, even by someone else, that could be another thing entirely.

I have found that it's better to have tools that are unique to you as they would have what is important to you and your needs versus what someone else has determined what people need or not need. To add on top of that, it is yours and not someone else's.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
I have to agree with this and given that this is a custom made solution for you, if the dev did everything right, it should be scalable to handle your needs now. Now, if it's the case that the dev is no longer able to be reached and your not able to have it tweaked, even by someone else, that could be another thing entirely.

I have found that it's better to have tools that are unique to you as they would have what is important to you and your needs versus what someone else has determined what people need or not need. To add on top of that, it is yours and not someone else's.
Also, if you have a custom software solution that manages your business, you've just increased the value of your business by a huge amount if you are ever look to sell your business.
 

netsol

Active Member
My largest client has a custom software package, developed for them and customized since 1985,
( we can list that as a success)
However,
With other clients i have seen truly terrible custom software, and you are normally in pretty deep before you know how your effort will end up.

My biggest issue is that it is normally impractical to do a good, efficient job when you are spreading development costs over a customer base of ONE
 

Signscorp

New Member
I used to work in enterprise software and the more customized someone's setup the worse it was. You're relying on the person implementing to create perfect rules, which is a pretty hard job.

The other big downside is that when it's custom often there's only one developer you can rely on to work on it. I've heard of extremely rude devs people are stuck with, or ones that just end up charging an arm and a leg because they can. The older your program gets the worse this problem gets.

Also with custom software you can't make changes on your own which kind of sucks as a business owner. Every change you'd like to make to your processes suddenly requires a developer at $100/hr.

I haven't played around with sign specific software, but I'd be a lot more inclined to go that route that to build something custom from the ground up.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
The other big downside is that when it's custom often there's only one developer you can rely on to work on it.
Not necessarily. That will greatly depend on the language used as well. The 1985 example will be far more limited compared to one nowadays (and when the "stuff" hits the fan when legacy software comes to bite (I remember the surge of interest for COBOL devs (COBOL!!!) in 2020, I told my mom she should apply, she didn't like that one bit). Of course, you have languages like Golang (Go), that are designed to work around that very issue of being beholding to one dev, I would say web apps would be another that use front and back end languages there. I would argue Nim would be the same way (just that's more niche compared to Go).

I would further argue that particularly sign shops that also offer at least web frontend work, should be able to handle something like this. Given Node/Deno as well, wouldn't have to worry about any of the other more traditional back end languages. Using JS/TS would have a huge search results to be able to work through things. I see no differences, between working on tools like this versus looking up search results to fix printers/cutters/computers etc. Or even creating one's own "analog" tools as well (if I remember correctly, we have one active user that has been known to do that) These are all tools that we use, there should be a smattering more knowledge around this so not everyone is beholding to someone else. Or at least be able to spot things earlier. I ironically see more people frankensteining the physical stuff to make things work in ways that they weren't originally designed for by the OEM(or at least when that was more of an option, I doubt this would be so easily doable in the newer models to come) and yet there tends to be a mental block with this. I find that strange.

These are all tools, we should not be hindered by our own tools.

Now, before one starts to think that I'm just an argumentative blowhard on something that is easier said, but not quite so in practice. I have done this. I actually use quote generating tools as my version of a "hello world". I actually have 7 different versions of that (different in terms of the languages used, one of which was from a game engine, so I use what gets things done efficiently for one person doing it). Not full on CRM mind you for every one of those, just quoting and generating a file to send to the client and a more verbose file that's for my records. I actually used an open source CRM as a base and just added what I needed on top of that and self host that. I also have a conversion program for production files written in python, now that is just CLI, but it does what it needs to do.

As things get more to sticking code blocks together (mainly) thru some type of "visual coding" for most things, this will be less and less an excuse. Rather or not, I like that as much, not really, especially if people start off that way (that would be akin to someone starting with Live Trace/Powertrace and not the Bezier Pen Tool). But that's just me. It will lessen the barrier of entry, but I would argue scalability could potentially be a problem, unless it had the ability to handle code snippets and not just doing things along through the visual scripting.

Also with custom software you can't make changes on your own which kind of sucks as a business owner. .
If they have the source code, the ability to have changes done should be there. Rather or not they are the actually ones that does them, that's something else. Depending on what language was used, the barrier to entry for them to make the change, may not be as high as one would think, or for it being hard to find someone to work on it as well.
 

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
Of course I’m thinking jfiscus should build their own solution just because there is no finer name than Fiscus. It beats out “Focus” and not just because that’s already cliché.

FiscusExample.jpg
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
Of course I’m thinking jfiscus should build their own solution just because there is no finer name than Fiscus. It beats out “Focus” and not just because that’s already cliché.
I aint got time for that. I have design work to do, lol. But, thank you!
Our previous system was pretty robust, but was built 8 years ago when we were at a different point in our business' growth.
We have almost tripled our revenue, employees, etc and it is just kind of cumbersome to deal with.
The developer who did it says that it would really need rebuilt from the ground up to do what all else we want to do with it.
(and THAT is a pretty penny from initial estimates)

We definitely want to integrate CRM / customer portal / online proof approval / quoting and more into the system.
Our larger fleet customers need assistance with knowing which vehicles are at which status.
We also want it to be easy for anyone to add their time/material to the jobs and also to be able to move the jobs between departments/dates easily.
Then we have to be able to see this visually multiple ways.

I'm sure there are good options out there, we aren't that unique.
 

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
I aint got time for that.
Well, I hear that!
The developer who did it says that it would really need rebuilt from the ground up to do what all else we want to do with it.
(and THAT is a pretty penny from initial estimates)
So you know, most good developers will be quoting the project and charging as such and not estimating and charging for time.

I'm sure there are good options out there
In your situation, the only one that I can recommend is a sign-specific option available at Job Pro Central. They offer their general industry version as a trial but I don't think they offer the sign shop version as a trial. (So many sign shops want their own customizations.)
 

White Haus

Not a Newbie
Our larger fleet customers need assistance with knowing which vehicles are at which status.
We also want it to be easy for anyone to add their time/material to the jobs and also to be able to move the jobs between departments/dates easily.
Then we have to be able to see this visually multiple ways.
Have you checked out Smartsheet? https://www.smartsheet.com/why-smartsheet

We currently use it for our project management and job board type stuff, and as much as I don't love it there are some pretty cool features.

The way we started using it was very similar to your first example about keeping key customers up to date with job status etc. We had a "sheet" that only our customer and us could see, and they would upload new jobs/RFQ's right on there and they would move through from quoted to in production to completed and read for pick up etc. You can easily upload proofs and trigger automated notifications when certain steps are reached, add notifications or comments, etc.

As a standalone solution it probably can't do everything you need but it might be worth a look.
 

myront

CorelDRAW is best
We've been using trello for a few years now. Compared to our "old system" of various bins hanging on the walls whereby every stage of production would require each of us to carry the workorder around and place in the next stage bin. It's great for tracking jobs from your PC but you'll need another program for invoicing and such. It has really sped up the production process which carries over to our customer base. We can spit out simple "bread and butter" signs on the fly.
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
Migration, to me, is actually migrating data from one place to another. Do I understand correctly for your case?
In this case it is about migrating from one software to another. Data migration is moving data from our current software into another, it is also something we desire in this move though.
 

ColorCrest

All around shop helper.
In this case it is about migrating from one software to another. Data migration is moving data from our current software into another, it is also something we desire in this move though.
Regardless of what platform you will eventually use, the following is a list of foundational tables a typical solution is based upon. (There are minor variations of this structure but are unimportant in the scope of this post.)

Staff
Contact
Company
Quote / Order
Line Item
Product
Component
Purchase Order
Supplier

A work flow starts with the user, down through the tables to the quote / order where line items are created and products will be chosen. Likewise, supplies are purchased as components which make up products available to line items.

Ideally, any existing data can be imported into such tables and used by a new solution. However, it is very often the case that products and components especially, suddenly become a significant challenge to have organized enough to be optimized for the new software. It’s recommended to see what those two data sets presently look like in a spreadsheet beforehand because most software will need a certain format in order to realize the best benefits.

At this point I would try to learn if all the existing data is exportable in a common format.
 

White Haus

Not a Newbie
I've been hearing good things about monday.com as a project management tool, and wondering if any sign shops here use it (apparently they have a monday.com partner program specifically for sign shops). It seems like it could be a good fit for keeping track of projects, deadlines, and client communication – all in one place.

But maybe there are hidden costs or limitations I'm not aware of. For sign shops specifically, what features are absolutely essential in your management software? Is monday.com partner worth checking out, or are there other options that are better suited to the industry?
How long have you worked at Monday.com??

Snide comments related to your subtle spam post aside, does monday.com actually have features specifically related to the sign industry?

A friend of mine owns a paving/construction company and has been running everything through monday.com for years and is happy with it.
 

Pauly

Printrade.com.au
i like the sign / print shop managing topics. As everyone has a different way of business,

Here's my take...

There really is no 1 solution to fit all businesses. There's a number of solutions out there, and heaps of people use them. Often not, there's complaints about "software should do this or do that"
I've broken my system down into modules. This way each piece of software does a specific task.
For example, if i was running a small sign shop. id do something like this:

A CRM: hubspot. has a free and a cheap starter tier. you can grow with it. Use this to manage customers.
Accounting: Xero, Myob, Quick books etc. most integrate with most CRMs so you can quote though hubspot and send the invoice to xero.
Database tool: Excel, Google sheets, Airtable, (there's so many) this would be to store pricing, consumables. any data you need to reference.
Job Board: Trello, Asana. 2 most popular free tools you can use as job boards.

with these 4 basic things, you can mostly replace any signshop tool.

Why not just go with a sign shop tool as it's all in 1?
As mentioned earlier, if you dont like aspects of it, you can't just change it. you need to swap out the whole package and migrate everything. (A royal PITA)
using a module based system, you dont like the CRM? no problem, swap it out for something else.
want to upgrade from excel? easy,
Dont like trello? no problem you can change that.

The drawbacks,
If you're 1-2 people. having a lot of software to juggle can be annoying.

With some IT skills, you could run all this on a micro server with opensource apps and have a pretty solid system... but that's another topic.
 
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