Seriously Arlon? Anyone using this stuff please look

[speedmedia]

So it seems Arlon is the new Avery. We have had tons of problems with this stuff over the past 2 years and this is the latest. So a bit of warning if you like replacing graphics after 6 mos to a year for free constantly head on out and buy this.

As you can see the adhesive has separated from the vinyl. To date we have replaced over 15 sets of truck graphics and a few full wraps and partials.

Buyer beware.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[J Hill Designs]

ouchies

 

[cajun312]

Which Arlon vinyl is that?

 

[speedmedia]

This particular one is 4560 GTX with 3420 lam. Have had the same problem with the 6000 and 3220 lam as well. Doesn't matter, stuff is crap.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[Letterbox Mike]

I've been hearing about these issues for a few years now. That sucks, that's almost a worse failure than Avery.

What is Arlon doing about it?

 

[Techman]

its all peeling from the top.
None appears to peel from the bottom.

I would not suspect the vinyl. I would suspect the cleaning methods..

also some appear to peeel over a ridge.. i would lok at the installation too. Is that calendared vinyl?

 

[chopper]

speed,
what material was that?
DPF6000 xrp?
Iam using dpf6000 xrp and have yet to have an issue, in fact I love the stuff..
//chopper

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Tech, it's the vinyl, not cleaning or installation. Arlon has been having this problem for years, the face stock separates from the adhesive, similar to what Avery did. It's probably exacerbated by water/cleaner running down the vertical surface, but it's not caused by it. Any and all vinyl should be able to withstand water running over it.

 

[BALLPARK]

I have used a lot of the Arlon 6000 XRP with the 3220 laminate. I have had no issues over the last 2 years. I love the stuff and would suggest it to anyone that is looking for a great combo wrap kit between $700-$750.

Always clean the heck out of every corner on the vehicle. We also use Primer 94 on the edges and big contours.

Sorry to hear that you have had issues out of the 6000 XRP. I would never use the 4560 for a wrap. That stuff is crazy hard to remove..lol.

 

[speedmedia]

its all peeling from the top.
None appears to peel from the bottom.

I would not suspect the vinyl. I would suspect the cleaning methods..

also some appear to peeel over a ridge.. i would lok at the installation too. Is that calendared vinyl?

Yes definitely not the cleaning methods or installation. We had 100's of vehicle graphics and wraps out there and the only ones that have ever failed where using anything from ARLON. whether it is calendared or cast.

I mean we have always used it to spec. We are not rookies when it comes to this game.

Arlon has taken care of the first two wraps, which was great of them. Beyond that I am loosing customers and looking like a schmuck over this. Yeah replacement is nice but do not want to be known as the company that's vinyl "falls off"!

Either way it is a widespread problem. They supposedly fixed it with this new XRP or whatever but I just don't dare use it, I am sure you can see why.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[gnemmas]

This job has black bleed, is there any part that has no bleed and peeling as well?

We are using 3M and from time to time has the same problem, and always with dark color with bleed.

It could be laminating procedure. For experiment, measure print length after curing (before laminating), measure length after laminated. Let it sit a day and measure again.
For a 8' print, it is about 1/8" variation.

 

[chopper]

This particular one is 4560 GTX with 3420 lam. Have had the same problem with the 6000 and 3220 lam as well. Doesn't matter, stuff is crap.

Thanks,
Kurt

Kurt,
just got off the phone with my Arlon rep...
He stated that they did have a problem with the 6000X, the problem was it was not as re-positionable as intended, and when it was snaped up to be re-positioned some of the adhesive would separate from the vinyl,
He also stated that 4560GTX is a cheap calendered material,( prone to shrinking) that is not re-positionable,(unless heated) if it touches the substrate and is pulled up it can separate from the adhesive like you see in your photos, the same can happen with the 6000, the only way you can re-position the material is to heat it before lifting it up or the problems you have will occur,
the XRP series does not have this problem, and it is a cast material,
I quit using cheap calendered material a long time ago because of issues like this, that I wanted to avoid, I found it to be cheaper to purchase the cast material and pay a few pennies more per sqft. then to cheap out and buy the calendered material,
just passing on what I was told...don't shoot the messenger...
//chopper

 

[300mphGraphics]

This particular one is 4560 GTX with 3420 lam. Have had the same problem with the 6000 and 3220 lam as well. Doesn't matter, stuff is crap.

Thanks,
Kurt

We lettered up the back of a trailer with the same combo die cut a year ago. South facing Arizona desert sun the entire time and was able to remove the print intact from the trailer and re-install it in the guy's shop. He's happy as can be and I've received 2 customers from his testimonial on that situation because of the material.

 

[HulkSmash]

No offence, but you kinda get what you pay for.
In my experience - Don't use Calendered vinyl on a vehicle.

 

[speedmedia]

No offence, but you kinda get what you pay for.
In my experience - Don't use Calendered vinyl on a vehicle.

No "offense" taken. What my point here is I used "their" vinyl to spec and it failed not what is right or wrong.

Either way more than anything this is a warning to others not to make the same mistake.

Thanks for everyone's opinions. I too have heard good things about the Arlon XRP, but you can bet your rear end it is not coming into my shop!

Thanks,
Kurt

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[dj_elite]

Oracal FTW. I have never had a problem

 

[speedmedia]

Kurt,
just got off the phone with my Arlon rep...
He stated that they did have a problem with the 6000X, the problem was it was not as re-positionable as intended, and when it was snaped up to be re-positioned some of the adhesive would separate from the vinyl,
He also stated that 4560GTX is a cheap calendered material,( prone to shrinking) that is not re-positionable,(unless heated) if it touches the substrate and is pulled up it can separate from the adhesive like you see in your photos, the same can happen with the 6000, the only way you can re-position the material is to heat it before lifting it up or the problems you have will occur,
the XRP series does not have this problem, and it is a cast material,
I quit using cheap calendered material a long time ago because of issues like this, that I wanted to avoid, I found it to be cheaper to purchase the cast material and pay a few pennies more per sqft. then to cheap out and buy the calendered material,
just passing on what I was told...don't shoot the messenger...
//chopper

Thanks for the info Chopper. I did know this before hand so we made sure our installers where careful with it. I still don't think this is what would make the adhesive separate from the vinyl but it is good info none the less.

And yes I agree, most of our stuff is done using cast vinyl for this reason. Unfortunately nowadays we get a long of projects where it just doesn't fit the budget and something else has to be used. This particular vinyl was used to spec and failed.

When this stuff came out they touted it is "great for partial wraps, vehicle graphics etc..." I have the flier right here that my supplier dropped off when he was bragging this stuff up. Either way it didn't say, don't use if you have a black outline or anything of this matter. I just don't get it. They first tried to blame this one something that wasn't laminated and after being told it was... Well then it must be something we did wrong.

Thanks,
Kurt

 

[Techman]

Avery did. It's probably exacerbated by water/cleaner running down the vertical surface, but it's not caused by it.

Believe what is best for you. I did not say water running down the vinyl I said cleaning methods. We all know pressure washing causes mucho trouble. Yes?.

However. Peeling only from the top and not the bottom says a few things. It does not say the vinyl is the problem.

This peeling is nothing like the "A" problem of a few years ago. Believe me I know that deal. I was one of the first to be told there is no problem after crying loudly about major trouble. I was one of the first to post about it too. It was later they finally admitted there was something wrong when lots of us had shrinkage.

Let me repeat myself a little. Peeling like that over a ridge and only on the top of the install immediately makes me think it is calendared vinyl or a cleaning problem. I had no idea if this product was calendared or not. But now we find out it is.

In the end. The OP may have installed it according to specs. So be it.
This only reinforces the general rule is that vehicles get cast vinyl at all times no matter what.

 

[chopper]

Thanks for the info Chopper. I did know this before hand so we made sure our installers where careful with it. I still don't think this is what would make the adhesive separate from the vinyl but it is good info none the less.

And yes I agree, most of our stuff is done using cast vinyl for this reason. Unfortunately nowadays we get a long of projects where it just doesn't fit the budget and something else has to be used. This particular vinyl was used to spec and failed.

When this stuff came out they touted it is "great for partial wraps, vehicle graphics etc..." I have the flier right here that my supplier dropped off when he was bragging this stuff up. Either way it didn't say, don't use if you have a black outline or anything of this matter. I just don't get it. They first tried to blame this one something that wasn't laminated and after being told it was... Well then it must be something we did wrong.

Thanks,
Kurt

Kurt,
you are welcome for the info, I am sorry about the problems you are having I know how frustrating, this can be....good luck, I had a problem a few years back with oracal 3651 and that is when I switched to arlon for print media.
and I went to cast material only,
//chopper

 

[speedmedia]

Amen, I learned this lesson even though I used it properly. Cast only from here on out and if your budget doesn't allow you can go to one of the local hacks who will gladly whore themselves out for pennies...

Back to Oracal and 3M. It is a much happier place anyways.

Thanks,
Kurt