Sewing the hem edge on vinyl banners?

[phototec]

I have been on here for over 5 years and at different times asked questions about sewing hems on 15 oz. banners.

Well, I finally bit the bullet and purchased a nice professional walking foot industrial strength sewing machine to sew the hem on banners.

Now, my questions are:

What size, type of thread do you all use (those that sew hems on banners)?

What size needle is the best for 15oz. vinyl banner hemming?

Thanks

 

[GAC05]

There is a lot of good info for users just starting out:
http://sailrite.wordpress.com/2013/08/23/how-to-select-a-sewing-machine-needle/

Link to their pdf chart:
http://sailrite.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/thread-and-needle-recommendations-10.pdf

We use the V-92 poly & a #20 needle.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Zx360]

We also use sailrite for our webbing and thread. But to answer you question of what needle and thread I have no idea because I don't order it. But i do know we use sailrite

 

[SightLine]

#92 thread is fine as well as #69 which is a tiny bit thinner. We for the most part use #69 bonded nylon thread. We also keep both black and white and will switch it out depending on the banner. I think we use #17 needles with the 69 weight thread but I'd have to double check to be sure.

 

[phototec]

Good info folks!

The machine came with two large spools of V69 Dacron Boned Poly thread (white), and a Schmetz 150 needle installed. I sewed a test hem of 15oz banner and the top stitches look good, but I don't think the bottom stitches look right, (see attached photos).

I will order some black thread because I think that will look better on fully printed banners.

Question, when using black thread on the top of the banner do you also need to load black in the bobbin (for the back stiches)?

What do you think about the back stitches?

Do I need to adjust the tension on the bobbin?

HELP.............

 

[CES020]

Yes, your tension is not right. When it's right, the stitch meets in the middle of the material. On your top, it looks like it's going all the way through and the bottom is just a straight line. That's a tension issue.

If you load white in the top, I'd load white in the bottom. I suppose you could use two different colors, top and bottom, but we tend to use one color for both top and bottom.

I haven't sewed a banner, I'm sewing leather with ours, but the principle is the same.

 

[SightLine]

Agreed. We always use the same color in both the bottom and top. It does look like your upper tension is too low. Might have to play with the upper and lower tensions a bit to get a good balance. The lower tension is adjusted with a tiny screw on the bobbin case on ours. We also do about a half inch reverse right at the start and end of a stitch to help lock the ends up good. In other words, start as normal, about a half inch in hit the reverse lever and run back to the start and let go of the reverse and go forward, at the very end, hit reverse again for about a half an inch then go forward on off the end and cut.

 

[phototec]

Agreed. We always use the same color in both the bottom and top. It does look like your upper tension is too low. Might have to play with the upper and lower tensions a bit to get a good balance. The lower tension is adjusted with a tiny screw on the bobbin case on ours. We also do about a half inch reverse right at the start and end of a stitch to help lock the ends up good. In other words, start as normal, about a half inch in hit the reverse lever and run back to the start and let go of the reverse and go forward, at the very end, hit reverse again for about a half an inch then go forward on off the end and cut.

Are you sure the TOP tension is LOW, I was thinking the BOTTOM (bobbin) tension was to tight?

When I pull the two threads (one at a time) by hand the TOP thread is very tight and the bobbin thread feels much looser, again I don't know NOTHING about this, I will try adjusting things, I just don't want to go in the wrong direction and get WAY off TRACK...

Thanks for taking time to help me out...

 

[phototec]

Agreed. We always use the same color in both the bottom and top. It does look like your upper tension is too low. Might have to play with the upper and lower tensions a bit to get a good balance. The lower tension is adjusted with a tiny screw on the bobbin case on ours. We also do about a half inch reverse right at the start and end of a stitch to help lock the ends up good. In other words, start as normal, about a half inch in hit the reverse lever and run back to the start and let go of the reverse and go forward, at the very end, hit reverse again for about a half an inch then go forward on off the end and cut.

Are you sure the TOP tension is LOW, I was thinking the BOTTOM (bobbin) tension was to tight?

When I pull the two threads (one at a time) by hand the TOP thread is very tight and the bobbin thread feels much looser, again I don't know NOTHING about this, I will try adjusting things, I just don't want to go in the wrong direction and get WAY off TRACK...

Thanks for taking time to help me out...

Ok, you were right, I turned the upper tension dial 6 full turns (more) and now the stitches look about the same on the top and bottom, when I went to 7 turns, the top started to look bad.

So, here is another question: When hemming a banner, do you sew from the FRONT or the BACK so you can see the hem as you sew?

Thanks

 

[CES020]

The tension thing is the opposite of what you would think. Problems on the bottom stitch mean there is an issue with the top thread, problems with the top thread tend to mean there's an issue with the bottom thread.

It's exactly backwards of what you'd think it would be.

I would guess you would sew a banner from the backside so you are looking at the hem. That would allow you to fold the corners over and sew them, all in one sitting. That's purely a guess, but that's how I'd do it.

 

[SightLine]

We always sew it face down (back on the top) - its the ideal way because then you can see exactly how much you are folding the edge over. Tried an attachment on the machine for a bit that turns the edge for you as you sew but in the long run did not like using it. Nowadays I can just fold it by hand as I go and cruise along but we do crease the edge ahead of time on the tables which makes things easier as well.

 

[phototec]

We always sew it face down (back on the top) - its the ideal way because then you can see exactly how much you are folding the edge over. Tried an attachment on the machine for a bit that turns the edge for you as you sew but in the long run did not like using it. Nowadays I can just fold it by hand as I go and cruise along but we do crease the edge ahead of time on the tables which makes things easier as well.

Hey, I saw one of those Hen Guides on Ebay, they have one for sewing on the back and it folds the material over in front of the needle for a 1" hem.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/16133542245...me=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

Is this like the one you have?

 

[phototec]

We always sew it face down (back on the top) - its the ideal way because then you can see exactly how much you are folding the edge over. Tried an attachment on the machine for a bit that turns the edge for you as you sew but in the long run did not like using it. Nowadays I can just fold it by hand as I go and cruise along but we do crease the edge ahead of time on the tables which makes things easier as well.

Here is a video showing a hem guide attachment, it looks to work pretty good?

[video=youtube;z9WKRTFGU-c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9WKRTFGU-c[/video]

 

[WildWestDesigns]

We also do about a half inch reverse right at the start and end of a stitch to help lock the ends up good. In other words, start as normal, about a half inch in hit the reverse lever and run back to the start and let go of the reverse and go forward, at the very end, hit reverse again for about a half an inch then go forward on off the end and cut.

This is essentially a tie in and tie off stitch. Same thing is done in embroidery. If you don't do this, you run a very good chance of the thread being able to be pulled out.

As to the hems, it's actually better to do it without the attachment, but then again, when I was taught to sew, we didn't use any of that. I find those things cumbersome, but then again it's all on what you learned on.

 

[SightLine]

Yes - that is the type of hem attachment. Like WildWest said - I learned without one so for me it just seems cumbersome to have it on there and use it. Its not quite as glorious as that video makes it seem. Some glossy materials tend to grab at it a little and whatnot. For a couple of bucks its worth a try though - they are cheap. You might like using it.

 

[phototec]

Well, I thought sewing a hem on a banner would be easy if I got the right sewing machine, (which I did), now however this tension adjusting is biting me in the but.

The guy I purchased the machine from sewed leather and tents, so the machine will handle banners without any problems, however the machine came with a #150 needle and was making nice looking stiches, I was told that needle was to BIG for vinyl, and changed it to a 110/18 and using V69 Dacron Bonded Poly thread, well then my tension was off on the bottom, the stitches looked like a straight line without any breaks, thought it was too tight so I loosened the upper tension (I was told the upper adjustment controls the bottom stitch), well then the top stitches got messed up.

Then I started to adjust the bobbin tension to fix the top stitches, this went on and on for hours, adjusting and testing, now I have both the top and bottom the SAME, but the stitches look bad to me, not like the nice stitches I have seen on other banners, see the attached photos (one photo shows the good stitches before I started to adjust tension to fix the bottom stitches).

Now the stitches are the same, however they don't look right, I'm lost, can anyone help me get back on track?

Where do you start when you get this far off track???????

 

[CES020]

I can't help you solve that, but we bought a sewing machine and I've never sew in my life. Watched the woman who sold it to us demonstrate piles of sewing, came back to the shop, couldn't get it to sew anything. Fought that thing for 2 weeks. Bought about $50 worth of various threads at local stores. Nothing. Finally ordered the recommended thread that was in the manual. It came, put it on, and we started to get some sewing happening. Tweaked the tensions and it all fell into place.

I come to the conclusion that sewing is complicated

 

[fresh]

I sew for fun. A Lot. Like, if I could not work and just sew all day, I would.

I will give you one word of advice. DO NOT ADJUST THE BOBBIN TENSION.

If stitches are not coming out nicely, here is a list of things to check / adjust.

1. Are you using new needle? Needles need to be replaced fairly often, and they are cheap enough to swap on a regularly basis.
2. Is the needle installed properly? Check the manual for what direction the flat side is supposed to be.
3. Rethread the entire machine, including bobbin. Consult the manual for the threading diagram.
4. Try using a different thread in both the top and bobbin. Sewing machines can be picky with they type of thread they like.
5. Adjust the top tension slowly until you get the perfect stitch. DO NOT TOUCH THE BOBBIN TENSION. Its set by the factory, and i've never known of a single instance where it needed to be adjusted.
6. Make a note of the needle size, thread type, and settings once you get it dialed in.

You may have to go through this a few times before you get everything right, just don't give up!

 

[fresh]

Where do you start when you get this far off track???????

go back to the beginning.

I think you needed to increase your top tension slightly, and that would have solved the problem. You like how the last image looks because it has a bigger hole due to the thicker needle. The needle you are using may be too small for the thread. I don't hem banners, so I'm not sure of the sizes, but I'm positive the thread you are using will have a recommended needle size.

Hopefully you'll be able to adjust the bobbin back to its original setting and start fresh with better results.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

I will give you one word of advice. DO NOT ADJUST THE BOBBIN TENSION.

Adjust the top tension slowly until you get the perfect stitch. DO NOT TOUCH THE BOBBIN TENSION. Its set by the factory, and i've never known of a single instance where it needed to be adjusted.

A couple of reasons why you may need to touch the bobbin. They are rare, but they may indeed happen. 20 yrs of embroidery/sewing (at least paid experience), I've adjusted the bobbin on both types of machines one time or another.

Typically your biggest reason is due to the materials. If you are doing a HUGE range of material types and thickness, they may get beyond the average tolerance of your original bobbin settings. You can only compensate so much with upper thread.

Another potential cause (although more rare nowadays) is inconsistency of the winding of the bobbin thread. Each spool of bobbin might have areas that are tighter then others. If you spool your own bobbin thread (which I will do on the special projects) that can happen as well. This type of issue can also happen on the upper thread as well. So don't be surprised if you you are going like gangbusters at one time and then on the same spool, you hit a spot that's tighter (or looser) then it was. Check tension after you change spools as well.

I will agree that messing with the bobbin thread should be rare, but I wouldn't say never adjust it.