So you want "me" to install "this" POS?

[JBurton]

Shipping was more than the cost of the letters! Wild.

I'm assuming part of that is 10% shipping and 90% tariffs...

 

[Hal D]

I used to see this every now and then when I worked for a local sign company here in the Pensacola, FL area. It was usually nail salons, vape shops and non-petrol convenience stores. I've seen these guys order signs online from overseas without even checking the sign ordinance to see if they could even have it. I can recall at least two people who bought an overseas sign that turned out to be over the allowable square footage for their respective buildings. Being the wise man that he was, my old boss told me to always walk away from that type of situation just because of the liability issues alone.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

It's hard to fault them. They come from a part of the world where everything is at least half the price vs America. My daughter had a field day when we were in Korea and I encouraged it. Packed as much as we could in the suitcases.

 

[XtremeXccessories]

For us non-electric sign people, what would this have cost to have someone produce (but like, a safe one) in the US?

 

[unclebun]

For us non-electric sign people, what would this have cost to have someone produce (but like, a safe one) in the US?

We did a much larger one, one line 32"x13.5' and another line 42"x26'. Designed, manufactured, and installed it was $13,300. The vape store in this thread didn't save any money.

 

[Hal D]

That would depend on several different factors and not all sign shops estimate and price signage the exact same way. I used to use a spreadsheet system with materials and component costs, mark-ups, fabrication and shop time with mark-ups, etc. Then time and labor to transport the sign to the jobsite and install it was factored in on the spreadsheet. At the very bottom of the spreadsheet, everything was automatically calculated with the actual price for the product in one column and the installation price in another. Then and if possible, I'd factor in permits, procurement time, inspections fees (and professional engineer's sealed drawings if applicable). The spreadsheet templates were something I developed and refined over a period of a few years mostly because I got sick to death of estimating projects via longhand with pencil, paper and a calculator but in the end, it was an accurate way of knowing how much you'd have invested in the production and installation of the sign and the projected profit margin to expect for the entire project. I might have copies of those spreadsheets hanging around somewhere in my computer.

That's a long winded answer to your simple question but I really couldn't make an educated guess about the U.S. price of that sign without having a drawing to go by.

 

[Ewan yu]

You guys didn't tell me that getting UL Certification was so easy!

Of course this guy will never change my mind, but I am enjoying his humorous attempts. ha!

that’s easy money

 

[Vassago]

Lol.. We have this in the UK.. CE means China Export rather than Conformité Européenne.. UL is probably the same.

Tbh.. Alot of Chinese stuff is rubbish.. But it's down to what you spec.. They'll make whatever you want. How you want it.. But if you want cheap.. They'll make cheap for you.

 

[JBurton]

For us non-electric sign people, what would this have cost to have someone produce (but like, a safe one) in the US?

My guess for one ordered wholesale from somebody like signfab, maybe $3-5k. That doesn't include install, nor markup.

 

[factorywrapsco]

A customer calls me up and first asks if I'm licensed and if I can install a sign for a new vape shop. Customer is in a big hurry, so I met him tonight. Not sure why the job was so urgent, but figured... what the hell. I'll meet ya.

So I come over to check out this 20 ft (3 section) sign. Where did you get this? Customer says "China".

Oh hell no...
[Ready to walk out the door -- but instead I start inspecting the sign -- mostly curious to see how bad it really was]

This is beside the point, but mildly interesting: Meanwhile he proceeds to tell me that he's tired of living in his car and needs to make money fast. [thinking to myself, so why did you pick one of the most expensive strip malls around, where nearly all small shops die within months?] (hint: last checked almost $25/sq.ft./year)

What is this glue and tape job shit? Flimsy raceway, multiple acrylic panels are just falling off because they're held together with sticky pads and the occasional glob of silicone... How much did you pay for this sign? [he shows me the invoice] Nearly $6,000 after shipping.

Wow. Just wow. That's one expensive paperweight! It doesn't take a genius to know that it's not safe to install, let alone power up.

What do you tell a customer when you see this kind of B.S.? Too bad, and good luck finding someone else? Or could this hot mess be salvaged by a U.L. Certified shop? My guess is "no", but even if it can, it would probably cost another $3k to do so, maybe more.
It sucks having to tell a customer they need to buy another sign, but from what I'm seeing (and I'm no expert), this thing isn't good for much more than an interior, non-illuminated sign.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't because if it falls apart and hits someone they will blame the installer as if he built it as well. Protect yourself and your business.

 

[Hal D]

Installing a sign manufactured and shipped in by a reputable national sign company is one thing. Installing a junk sign that was slapped together overseas with zero quality control is another. It's just too much of a liability.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Lol.. We have this in the UK.. CE means China Export rather than Conformité Européenne.. UL is probably the same.

Tbh.. Alot of Chinese stuff is rubbish.. But it's down to what you spec.. They'll make whatever you want. How you want it.. But if you want cheap.. They'll make cheap for you.

Right on. China has some of the best technology and fabrication methods in the world. But if folks ask for cheap -- that's what they get. China doesn't give AF as long as they get paid -- hence China's bad rep for making crap.

I've been ignoring this guy's calls the past few days. Too busy to entertain his pleading and whining -- but the latest texts I'm receiving are "the manufacturer sent me a UL label. please install."

But damn, I'd love to see how good that counterfeit label is. I'm installing a legit UL listed sign next door in a few months, so if that guy manages to find some shady installer to do that job for him -- I'll just swing my bucket over for a quick look at that label.

 

[tulsagraphics]

My guess for one ordered wholesale from somebody like signfab, maybe $3-5k. That doesn't include install, nor markup.

Just a quick check (B2S) came out to about 5.5k w/ shipping. (non-negotiated rates)

 

[Hal D]

It's hard to fault them. They come from a part of the world where everything is at least half the price vs America. My daughter had a field day when we were in Korea and I encouraged it. Packed as much as we could in the suitcases.

Yep. They're also taught and programmed to haggle over prices from childhood no matter the purchase items are. It's a culture thing.

 

[tulsagraphics]

Yep. They're also taught and programmed to haggle over prices from childhood no matter the purchase items are. It's a culture thing.

100%. My friend has been importing from China for about 35 years. (These days he employs a Chinese rep -- travels back and forth from here to there -- who does the haggling / negotiating for him --and more importantly, quality control before things get boxed up / shipped out). The haggling sh*t can get heated real fast over there -- and if you don't keep them in check they will cut corners like crazy. "Man, I'm asking you to give me a knock-off of this name brand roofing shovel to save a few bucks (out of the same factory making the same product for that name brand) -- but for the love of god buy your employees some shoes, or at least socks!

When you see the rep's photos of real people doing real work in those conditions -- cigarette smoking employees missing digits or limbs crawling over piles of dangerous drop while they're operating a drop press, it really makes you think twice about importing. When folks are that desperate to work, the higher ups are equally (or more) desperate just to rake in the cash. It's so nasty -- you can tell it's part of the culture (not all manufacturers operate that way, but many do)

 

[Hal D]

100%. My friend has been importing from China for about 35 years. (These days he employs a Chinese rep -- travels back and forth from here to there -- who does the haggling / negotiating for him --and more importantly, quality control before things get boxed up / shipped out). The haggling sh*t can get heated real fast over there -- and if you don't keep them in check they will cut corners like crazy. "Man, I'm asking you to give me a knock-off of this name brand roofing shovel to save a few bucks (out of the same factory making the same product for that name brand) -- but for the love of god buy your employees some shoes, or at least socks!

When you see the rep's photos of real people doing real work in those conditions -- cigarette smoking employees missing digits or limbs crawling over piles of dangerous drop while they're operating a drop press, it really makes you think twice about importing. When folks are that desperate to work, the higher ups are equally (or more) desperate just to rake in the cash. It's so nasty -- you can tell it's part of the culture (not all manufacturers operate that way, but many do)

Good comments. I'm sure that not all Chinese manufacturing shops operate equally but I've seen quite a few channel letter signs shipped over here to end users, and nearly all of them are cheaply and poorly made. As poorly made as they are and seeing how most reputable local sign contractors won't install them, sure enough someone did and always will. I know for a fact that a few of those signs have been installed without anyone pulling a permit and without an electrical inspector signing off. But that falls back on Code Enforcement's lackadaisical attitude and not catching the perps who did the installation. I thought about reporting this to code enforcement a time or two but just decided that it wasn't my business and not worth my time. What would get (and will at some point) the attention of code enforcement and building inspections is when one these cheap foreign made signs shorts out and causes a building fire. I don't wish that on anyone but someone or some event needs to happen to get the attention of Code Enforcement in this area.