substrate problem, dust?

[nico]

Hey guys,

I've been having this problem lately that's driving me crazy, I run a HP L310 and use italian vinyl (Kemica) which is supposed to be decent, unfortunately I don't have access in my region to a lot of options.

Anyways, the problem: prints are constantly coming out with little white dots, like the printer is not able to print completely on the substrate, I'm attaching photos.

Additional info:
-I've discarded that the vinyl is the problem because I've tried multiple (same brand though, but I doubt all of them are defective)
-It's not the printheads or inks, I describe a way of dealing with the issue (cleaning the substrate with cloth)
-My tech says this is a common problem called "lice" here and that it is due to dust in the room where the printer is.
-The thing is even though I work in a "dusty area" the room is completely closed, windows and doors shut at all times while printing, I try keeping everything as clean as possible since this started happening but the problem persists.

My guess is that the fans on the top of the machine are blowing dust on top of the vinyl right before the machine prints on the substrate.

The only way I've found so far of avoiding the issue is by advancing the substrate a couple of feet and swiping it with a piece of cloth (dry), but obviously this is annoying because I can't run long prints without doing it and I have to do it before each print.

Also if I'm right about the fans on top blowing dust on top of the substrate right before the printing starts it wouldn't be clear to me why "cleaning" the substrate before sending a job solves the issue.

I was wondering if anyone else has experienced this with other substrates and what do you do about it.

All help is very appreciated!

nico

 

[Gino]

If that's dust, that's an awful lotta dust. What is the media you're printing on ?? I also don't think it would be quite so uniform.

 

[flyplainsdrifta]

That looks like it may be more of a profile/ink density issue. Is the material you're using rated for latex use?? And are you using a custom profile or preset one for this substrate?

 

[EffectiveCause]

Im also curious about the material you're using. It looks like it has a rough texture to it?

 

[nico]

If that's dust, that's an awful lotta dust. What is the media you're printing on ?? I also don't think it would be quite so uniform.

Hey Gino, same thing I tell my tech support when they tell me it is a problem with the room!! Find it weird too.
Italian media, Kemica, I know it's rare but I don't a lot of options in my region, it's supposed to be better than entry level/cheap substrates.

That looks like it may be more of a profile/ink density issue. Is the material you're using rated for latex use?? And are you using a custom profile or preset one for this substrate?

Hey thanks for the help, to be completely honest I'm not sure, the company I bought the machine from is the only one here that's a authorized distributor for HP but they mainly sell solvent, mimaki and roland, so maybe there's something there.
Tried a lot of profiles with tech when they installed the machine, we ended up using one we downloaded that's supposed to be for Avery MPI, it's the one that ended up working better. lots of problems with graininess too.

The thing I really don't get is why would it be consistent with every roll and also how come after "cleaning" it with a cloth it solves the issue for the most part.

Im also curious about the material you're using. It looks like it has a rough texture to it?

Wow really sharp eye! I have no idea how you can notice that from the photos but yes you are right, this is the only vinyl I've seen with this type of rough texture to it, I would call it something more like a porous texture (which clients liked and that's why I sticked to it, I'm not yet laminating and focus on small decals, labels and stickers).
The media is from a brand called Kemica (italian)

Thank you guys for the help I really appreciate it, I'm starting out and don't have a lot of experience yet so it helps a ton, I've spent all day today trying to see if I can find other reliable vendors of media.

If anyone has any idea if the room could be the problem, even though it is shut at all times while printing (dust) or knows a way I could solve this that'd be awesome!

 

[EffectiveCause]

I’m wondering with the texture if there isn’t loose particles coming off during the print. Which is why wiping it before hand is helping. What is the ink saturation percentage for the profile you’re using? Maybe try upping it 10 or 20 percent and see if that doesn’t help keep these particles from escaping. Otherwise you might just need to find a better substrate which might be your long term solution anyway.


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[nico]

Thanks for the suggestion, currently ink saturation is at 100% I'll try increasing it to see how it goes and will get back to post results.
Agree on the long term thing, definitely that's why I'm hoping to just find another distributor with hopefully good alternatives.
If anyone else knows about what may be causing this please do share!

 

[AKwrapguy]

So a few things......

Just cause the windows and doors are closed while your printing doesn't mean dust isn't the issue. There could be still be dust int he room and the charge from the material going through the machine might attract it to it. If your in a dusty environment you need to keep the windows and doors closed all the time. Also look at getting humidifier

I don't think that the issue is dust though, I also think that it;s the material and the rough texture. Look at increasing your pass count, increase your ink density and play around with the optimizer levels as well. If the material is as rough texture as it looks like what we're seeing is that the ink isn't getting into all the crevasses.

I agree that the best option long term is going to be a different material.

This might be great opportunity for you to set up a side business to distribute material. Fill a need in the area.

 

[SignMeUpGraphics]

With this amount of "dust" I'd expect there to be a CNC milling within a couple of feet of the printer. I doubt that's the case.

 

[EffectiveCause]

With this amount of "dust" I'd expect there to be a CNC milling within a couple of feet of the printer. I doubt that's the case.

Honestly though I don't think dust is really an issue for this printer. I ran a 360 for almost 3 years in a room with 8 embroidery machines that were constantly running and there was a layer of dust on everything. You could wipe the entire room clean and come in the next day with a new layer of dust. But it never gave us issues with printing.

 

[ikarasu]

I can buy dust in the first 1-1.5 ft of the roll. But the material is loaded under the printer, it's somewhat covered... And there's not much lead between the roll and the printer.

If it is dust, your machine would have a layer of dust when you open the viewing door... Does it look / feel dusty with no substrate in it?

It does look like not enough ink to me. Some material is like that... Create a new profile/print mode, set it to max. ink and test run something .The colors will probably be way off, ink may not dry if the temp/pass isn't up, bit youd be able to see if the dots stay.

I'd also try making 4 3" x 12" squares, 1 100%C, 1 100%M, etc. Just print a full 100 C,M,Y,K square with no colors mixed, see how the media handles it... And it should rule out a bad head / ink issue by using seperate ones.

I know your media options are limited, but I'd also try to get a roll of a different brand... Even if it's a really crappy one, just for testing.

 

[nico]

Hey guys I'm sorry I couldn't reply before, last days have been a total disaster with the machines and I've been day and night trying to solve it (dealing with some other issues, graphtec is behaving terrible and I'm also having problems for the first time with prints, very high coalescence, apparently because of cold affecting media *I think*, murphy's law I guess).

Okay so regarding the "dust" issue. I agree with all of what you guys have said, it's sort of similar to what I tell my tech support and substrate executive when they just point to the problem being the room.

This is exactly what I say to them (think) (what ikarasu said):
"I can buy dust in the first 1-1.5 ft of the roll. But the material is loaded under the printer, it's somewhat covered... And there's not much lead between the roll and the printer."

If it is dust, your machine would have a layer of dust when you open the viewing door... Does it look / feel dusty with no substrate in it?

It doesn't, like at all, the room (small) is completely shut at almost all times and it can seriously be weeks before you notice a small layer of dust accumulating on top of the machine for example.

Thanks for all the suggestions I'll start working on them!

Summarizing:
-the best option like you guys suggested is definitely looking for media alternatives, so that's what I'm doing.
-tech support hasn't been much help, and it is probably a combination of media + the machine not being profiled correctly (the guys that installed it never did, just downloaded and tested a couple of profiles.

Anyways, as always thank you very much for all your time and help, as a one man operation and a noob at this it can get really frustrating at times so it really helps.
I'll let you guys know how it goes from here.

Also:

This might be great opportunity for you to set up a side business to distribute material. Fill a need in the area.

I like your business-y thinking, taking advantage of opportunities! Maybe in the future when I get the workshop properly set.

With this amount of "dust" I'd expect there to be a CNC milling within a couple of feet of the printer. I doubt that's the case.

haha idk why this cracked me up, but yeah not the case and also effective cause experience/reference is good to know, since my distributor was already suggesting installing all these fancy equipment to regulate pressure in the room and stuff.

 

[ikarasu]

Hey guys I'm sorry I couldn't reply before, last days have been a total disaster with the machines and I've been day and night trying to solve it (dealing with some other issues, graphtec is behaving terrible and I'm also having problems for the first time with prints, very high coalescence, apparently because of cold affecting media *I think*, murphy's law I guess).

In Flexi before you send the job, under job peroperties, printer options, click prepare to print, and let your.machine sit for 4-5 minutes.

It'll warm up the printer. I have the same issue since my machine isn't in a heat controlled area, and this fixes the print from not drying and the quality from being weird. It may help!

 

[Andy_warp]

Silly question. Have you tried cleaning out your fans? I work in an awful print environment and have to clean them fairly frequently. A few things I do to combat the dust are NEVER cleaning or blowing stuff out BEFORE I print for the day. I usually dropcloth the machine and let all the dust I "cleaned" settle overnight. Use a vacuum to clean the fans instead of blowing air though them. Another thing to do would be recondition your pinch rollers. Even if you just wipe them down with some distilled water. You want them tacky so the dust sticks to them. We have a solution that resaturates the rubber. It reeks like nail polish remover, but it gets the rollers nice and tacky. You don't want dry slippery rollers. Best of luck!

 

[nico]

In Flexi before you send the job, under job peroperties, printer options, click prepare to print, and let your.machine sit for 4-5 minutes.

It'll warm up the printer. I have the same issue since my machine isn't in a heat controlled area, and this fixes the print from not drying and the quality from being weird. It may help!

Thanks for the tip man! You are always so much help. I'll try this first thing tomorrow morning, it is starting to get really cold here, friday I had a 10 hour battle with the machine over figuring out what was happening, I did notice that after you ran a couple of meters the coalescence would start decreasing, but then what I couldn't figure out was why it would come back when the machine was already "warm". I'll still try it though.

Silly question. Have you tried cleaning out your fans? I work in an awful print environment and have to clean them fairly frequently. A few things I do to combat the dust are NEVER cleaning or blowing stuff out BEFORE I print for the day. I usually dropcloth the machine and let all the dust I "cleaned" settle overnight. Use a vacuum to clean the fans instead of blowing air though them. Another thing to do would be recondition your pinch rollers. Even if you just wipe them down with some distilled water. You want them tacky so the dust sticks to them. We have a solution that resaturates the rubber. It reeks like nail polish remover, but it gets the rollers nice and tacky. You don't want dry slippery rollers. Best of luck!

I haven't, but the machine is practically new, was installed just a couple of months ago, and the room it sits on is shut almost at all times, and not that bad dust-wise. I still every day clean all of the surfaces first thing in them morning. Thanks for the help!

 

[nico]

Hey man I just noticed something that I think could be causing this problem with the graphtec that's making me pull my hair out.
The cut files automatically created by Flexi after sending a job to print now say "Nested" right after the file name. Now I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure the cut files just ended in .cut and there was no "nested" before them, before.

The reason I think this could be it, is because when the guys that installed the plotter where here I remember the only time they had trouble with the plotter was when they tried grouping and sending different jobs as one file, nesting them on Flexi, I even gave up doing this because of how bad Flexi is at it and the cuts were always off, like a lot.

Am I going crazy here? is it normal for the cut files created by Flexi to say "Nested" right before .cut? I'm trying to check if I messed up something in the settings.