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Thoughts on sharing vector wrap files...

B

BSL Graphix

New Member
I design and print a lot of race car wraps as a side business. I get asked to share my design files A LOT (for apparel and iracing) due to the nature of the business, however, I'd like to get some thoughts of others on this subject please. I try to keep my wrap prices to a minimum to help out the racers, but sometimes I feel I'm being taken advantage of because I am sending out my hard earned design time for free. There are times I spend countless hours of design time, sending our layouts, and revisions to clients and then after approval I print the wrap, then a day later they tell me to send the file to them for this...or that. To me it gets frustrating. Looking for opinions of others.... thanks!!
 
B

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
IMHO, you don't give away your design time. Either charge for it directly as a line item on the invoice or work the design time fee into the total cost of the vehicle wrap.

Different sign companies have their own ways of doing business and some policies can vary depending on the client (repeat customers are going to get more lee-way on things). We have no problem giving clients vector-based artwork of logos. Sometimes it's their own artwork (clients are often pretty bad at keeping track of their own logo files). If we designed their logo or did a vector re-creation of their artwork they would have been charged up front one time for it. After that we'll give them copies of the files whenever they need it.

As for giving a client a complete, production ready vehicle wrap layout file: I would NOT do that. They don't need all of that just to make a t-shirt or something. Individual elements? We can consider sending those. But we won't send a complete wrap project file. Doing so is a great invitation for that production file to wind up at a rival sign company aiming to under cut you out of possible repeat jobs.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
Something to keep in mind, racing is a hobby and an expensive one at that. They choose to do it and have the extra cash to make it happen. There is no reason why anyone else needs to subsidize someone else's play time.
There are people out there that will keep taking and taking until you put your foot down. Most people aren't like that but they are out there. OTOH, people generally aren't being nefarious when they ask for a file to get t-shirts or whatever nonsense made. As BobbyH said, you don't have to give them everything.
 
Johnny Best

Johnny Best

Active Member
These people think that the race car was wrapped they have rights to artwork. Nobody likes to work for free, we want to be compensated for our time. Get yourself to stand up to these people. Stand tall.
 
gnubler

gnubler

Active Member
Notarealsignguy said:
Something to keep in mind, racing is a hobby and an expensive one at that. They choose to do it and have the extra cash to make it happen.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I've never dealt with race cars and hope I never will, others on the forum have echoed that the drivers are notoriously cheap. Why?

It's like the boat owners I've dealt with complaining about $800 graphics for an $80,000 boat. I got a call once on a Friday afternoon to cut some custom hull numbers for that weekend. Evidently the $50 rush charge was too much, and the last thing I heard was he was going to see what they had at Home Depot. :D
 
brdesign

brdesign

New Member
Notarealsignguy said:
Something to keep in mind, racing is a hobby and an expensive one at that. They choose to do it and have the extra cash to make it happen. There is no reason why anyone else needs to subsidize someone else's play time.
There are people out there that will keep taking and taking until you put your foot down. Most people aren't like that but they are out there. OTOH, people generally aren't being nefarious when they ask for a file to get t-shirts or whatever nonsense made. As BobbyH said, you don't have to give them everything.
Click to expand...
I recently did some decals for a racer who complained about the price of a decal, after he just spent 20 minutes showing me pictures of the car and bragging about how just spent over $10,000 on the engine.
 
Zac

Zac

Mediocre Designer
As a racer, I love a good deal on car parts. And for most racers, these are just 'car parts' to them. But as a designer, I like getting paid for my work while designing fun projects. So I get it, there's a fine line for sure.

Everybody, racer or not, loves a good deal. So I try to give a 'good deal' rate for my time put in. Usually around $125 for a layout file with any original design elements. Double it if it was double the work. But my clients are shops and usually see the value in having updated artwork, compared to Mr. Charlie Hobby and his outdated late model chassis that HAS to be installed by Friday.

What's worse, you don't charge for the file, or they don't purchase it because of the price? At the end of the day, it's the same outcome. So get what you can for design, especially if there's no chance of easy profits like stickers later.

Awesome website man, love me some classic dirt track design, and your style nails it.
 
B

BSL Graphix

New Member
well, it happened, Just saw a wrap on a race car of a (now former) client, that I designed, printed, and installed in the past. . I had sent the file to a local t-shirt/printer (competitor) last season to have apparel made, at no charge to anybody..no questions asked. Guess I learned my lesson on sending files out! haha
 
C

CanuckSigns

Active Member
I had an older couple come in the shop a few weeks ago, looking for a nice sign for their Nursery (plants, not babies) they wanted something really nice and loved the sandblasted cedar samples I had, I warned them it was expensive and gave them other options, the guy said he wants something nice that will last. a week later their realtor son emails me, tells me to ignore everything his parents said, he wants a print on "plywood", I quoted it, and I was too expensive...
 
gnubler

gnubler

Active Member
Notarealsignguy said:
I dunno. Most real estate agents are broke but try to make themselves look rich. Most racers are wealthy but try to make themselves look broke.
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Excellent! I think you're spot on. Throw in the boat owners with racers, too.

I had a realtor request a quote for a post & panel corner sign, needed it installed asap. I quoted exactly what she asked for and she flipped out when she saw the cost. Ended up printing a banner that they stuck on a piece of plywood and installed themselves. I watched that thing lean precariously all winter until they finally tore it down and ordered some pole signs instead. They would have been better off just going with the original corner sign, would have saved a lot of time and aggravation on their end and kept up an image of professionalism. Nothing says "tacky" like a banner and plywood.
 
brdesign

brdesign

New Member
CanuckSigns said:
I had an older couple come in the shop a few weeks ago, looking for a nice sign for their Nursery (plants, not babies) they wanted something really nice and loved the sandblasted cedar samples I had, I warned them it was expensive and gave them other options, the guy said he wants something nice that will last. a week later their realtor son emails me, tells me to ignore everything his parents said, he wants a print on "plywood", I quoted it, and I was too expensive...
Click to expand...
I once had a customer who wanted a really nice sign and and said that money was no problem. We quoted him a nice sandblasted redwood sign with gold leaf for about $3000. He freaked out about the price because he was expecting something under $200.
 
Johnny Best

Johnny Best

Active Member
Anything you do will be open for anyone in 50 years. You guys worry about everything.
Worst kind of scenario people.
 
T

truckgraphics

New Member
BSL Graphix said:
I design and print a lot of race car wraps as a side business. I get asked to share my design files A LOT (for apparel and iracing) due to the nature of the business, however, I'd like to get some thoughts of others on this subject please. I try to keep my wrap prices to a minimum to help out the racers, but sometimes I feel I'm being taken advantage of because I am sending out my hard earned design time for free. There are times I spend countless hours of design time, sending our layouts, and revisions to clients and then after approval I print the wrap, then a day later they tell me to send the file to them for this...or that. To me it gets frustrating. Looking for opinions of others.... thanks!!
Click to expand...

They own the wrap or decals that you put on the vehicle after they paid for it. That's it. In my opinion, you should spell it out.

Unless you made a previous agreement and/or they paid extra for it, you own the wrap design and the digital design panels that you used to run your printer. It takes expertise, time and skill to turn a design into a wrap. (As an aside, if it's so easy, how come I never receive "camera ready" artwork from the so-called artists my clients hire.)

They can't have those files unless they pay for it or you want to give it to them. I'm not a lawyer, so I suppose they could argue that it was included in the price. But it's not likely they will sue you or could win (Consult your lawyer if in doubt.) Most people think the design comes out of thin air. If they get mad at you, they'll just stomp off and go elsewhere, having the new wrapper start from scratch. However, I doubt you will lose business or ever go to trial if you explain to them that the design is your property unless they pay for it. Most people understand that your labor was involved.

Otherwise, they could just take the design after they wreck their car or buy another car and go to a wrap shop that is cheaper. And it probably will be cheaper because the new shop won't have to set up the files you've given them. Of course logos and names are the property of the customer.

In my opinion, either spell out that they get a wrap for their money (but no digital files) or have them pay extra for the files.

And always put a watermark on your low res proofs so they can't pilfer them.

By the way, I talk a good game, but have been burned before. Fortunately not recently. But I don't want it to happen again for me or you.
 
B

BigNate

New Member
as has been stated here a few times, artwork and printing are different things and are generally billed separately. Sometimes we would design logos for a totally cheap-a$$ customer who would nickel and dime you out of all profits - if you let him. We would always put on the invoice what rights were being purchased - "the right to use logo on business cards and letterhead, no envelope, no advertising." just to clear up any confusion. Artwork used to be valued by the lay-person much more before the Mac came to the market - now EVERYONE is a designer (never-mind they don't know a single thing about making something press-ready.)

Never give away your time - and the art you made print-ready took time! The customer can either pay you, or pay someone else, but I assume they do not have the skills to do it themselves.
 
Fred Weiss

Fred Weiss

Merchant Member
My first question is did you create the artwork itself or take any photos used yourself? If these items originated under a license you purchased (or worse), you almost certainly do not have the right to share them with or sell them to anyone else.
 
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