To Laminate or not-window perf continued

[phototec]

Window perf fogging in the desert:

Here's a thought, don't apply the laminated window perf to the glass in a non-controlled environment, trapping moisture under the laminated window perf and allowing it to fog up later.

Only apply the laminated window perf in a humidity controlled environment (according to the manufactures recommendations), then you won't have moisture trapped under the window per that will cause fogging!

I use ORAJET 3675 Window Graphics Film, and it is recomended to laminate the window perf with Oraguard 297GF and either let the laminate extend past the edge of the perf all the way arround the perimiter of the graphic or apply a strip of laminate (.4 to .5 inch wide) all around the perimiter overlapping the edge and the receiving surface to seal out MOISTURE and DIRT.

This will not only improve the adhesion of the edges to the surface but also effectively prevent any penetration of humidity and dust.

I always follow the manufactures reccomendations for installion, here are the recommendations:

Freshly printed films should be spread out and left to dry for 72 hours before lamination.

It is recommended to exclusively apply the Window Graphics Film together with Oraguard protective films in a laminated form recommended by ORAFOL.

To ensure a high-quality of application, the film should be applied at a temperature of at least +10°C in a dry and closed room. The glass substrate should be left in the room for several hours prior and after application in order to allow the receiving surface to adjust to the application conditions and to achieve the best possible adhesion result.

 

[Desert_Signs]

Window perf fogging in the desert:

Here's a thought, don't apply the laminated window perf to the glass in a non-controlled environment, trapping moisture under the laminated window perf and allowing it to fog up later.

Only apply the laminated window perf in a humidity controlled environment (according to the manufactures recommendations), then you won't have moisture trapped under the window per that will cause fogging!

I use ORAJET 3675 Window Graphics Film, and it is recomended to laminate the window perf with Oraguard 297GF and either let the laminate extend past the edge of the perf all the way arround the perimiter of the graphic or apply a strip of laminate (.4 to .5 inch wide) all around the perimiter overlapping the edge and the receiving surface to seal out MOISTURE and DIRT.

This will not only improve the adhesion of the edges to the surface but also effectively prevent any penetration of humidity and dust.

I always follow the manufactures reccomendations for installion, here are the recommendations:

Freshly printed films should be spread out and left to dry for 72 hours before lamination.

It is recommended to exclusively apply the Window Graphics Film together with Oraguard protective films in a laminated form recommended by ORAFOL.

To ensure a high-quality of application, the film should be applied at a temperature of at least +10°C in a dry and closed room. The glass substrate should be left in the room for several hours prior and after application in order to allow the receiving surface to adjust to the application conditions and to achieve the best possible adhesion result.

A dry room is considered to be under 40% humidity. Most air conditioned places are 35-55% humidity.

The average humidity here is 37%.

I can tell you, from experience, unlaminated perf WITHOUT edge sealing lasts over 2 years here. I've never had to replace perf for fading or lifting. I don't know what I'm doing differently, but NOT laminating perf makes my customers happy. My job is to make my customers happy, wherever possible. Sometimes, what they want is not possible. In this case, it is, so I do it.

 

[Biker Scout]

You can at the very least frog juice window perf. That does actually help keep the abrasion scratches down, and about the same fade resistance as lamination.

I'd be real curious to see a perf panel pulled off after a year and placed next to a fresh print to see if there really isn't any fading occurring. Our elevation difference here in Vegas must be why prints here fade a bit more quickly here. Or your smog layer helps prevent early deterioration from UV exposure.

 

[phototec]

A dry room is considered to be under 40% humidity. Most air conditioned places are 35-55% humidity.

The average humidity here is 37%.

I can tell you, from experience, unlaminated perf WITHOUT edge sealing lasts over 2 years here. I've never had to replace perf for fading or lifting. I don't know what I'm doing differently, but NOT laminating perf makes my customers happy. My job is to make my customers happy, wherever possible. Sometimes, what they want is not possible. In this case, it is, so I do it.

Ok, if it works for you...

However, I served in the military, where you have to follow certain operating procedures set forth by your superiors and I also worked for two large fortune 500 companies (Texas Instruments and Dell Computers for 20+ years), where you had to follow specific procedures whenever you perform any type of task, you don't get to do want just because it easier, and has NOT failed yet. Both companies sold products to the federal government and we had to work to military specifications.

So, I guess you could say I have been trained to do the job right the first time, not necessarily the easy way.

I always follow the instructions and recommendations that manufactures spend time and research putting together, and if you follow the manufactures guidelines, you are covered under their warranty. If you deviate from their recommended installation process, they will not back you up when you have a product failures.

So, you do it you way, and I will follow the manufactures recommended and established trade accepted installation procedures.

 

[Desert_Signs]

Ok, if it works for you...

However, I served in the military, where you have to follow certain operating procedures set forth by your superiors and I also worked for two large fortune 500 companies (Texas Instruments and Dell Computers for 20+ years), where you had to follow specific procedures whenever you perform any type of task, you don't get to do want just because it easier, and has NOT failed yet. Both companies sold products to the federal government and we had to work to military specifications.

So, I guess you could say I have been trained to do the job right the first time, not necessarily the easy way.

I always follow the instructions and recommendations that manufactures spend time and research putting together, and if you follow the manufactures guidelines, you are covered under their warranty. If you deviate from their recommended installation process, they will not back you up when you have a product failures.

So, you do it you way, and I will follow the manufactures recommended and established trade accepted installation procedures.

So you're saying you never install window perf on store front windows? You always keep a vehicle in your shop for at least 6 hours to install perf? You always have the customer return within 24 hours?

Also, Orafol only recommend laminate, not requires. If what they recommend is what you always do, because it's always right, you never put window perf on the rear window of a vehicle, correct?

 

[Desert_Signs]

You can at the very least frog juice window perf. That does actually help keep the abrasion scratches down, and about the same fade resistance as lamination.

I'd be real curious to see a perf panel pulled off after a year and placed next to a fresh print to see if there really isn't any fading occurring. Our elevation difference here in Vegas must be why prints here fade a bit more quickly here. Or your smog layer helps prevent early deterioration from UV exposure.

Oh, it definitely fades. Just not to the point that it's 'bad'.

Granted, I've always printed perf on a Latex printer. Maybe Latex ink just performs better?

 

[GAC05]

Desert,
do you laminate the wrap film that goes on the paint?
I'm not sure on the lam or no lam for windows we lam ours but almost all of our vehicle wraps are commercial vehicles - vans & high cubes so there is not much of an issue seeing through the perf'd windows.
I try to talk my customers out of covering the windows as it will be the first to fail laminated or not.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Desert_Signs]

Desert,
do you laminate the wrap film that goes on the paint?
I'm not sure on the lam or no lam for windows we lam ours but almost all of our vehicle wraps are commercial vehicles - vans & high cubes so there is not much of an issue seeing through the perf'd windows.
I try to talk my customers out of covering the windows as it will be the first to fail laminated or not.

wayne k
guam usa

Yes.

I'm certainly not arguing that laminating perf isn't better for durability. It most certainly is. But durability isn't always the top concern.

 

[phototec]

hum, I wonder what the desert dust and sand do to the surface of the digitally printed window perf that is NOT protected with laminate?

I have been to Vegas, Arizona, New Mexico and the west Texas deserts, and always seam to get a light coating of fine desert sand coating my vehicle. Once I was even in a sand storm were we couldn't even see the road 10ft in front of the vehicle, and had to pull over on the side of the road.

I have even been to the UFO crash site in Roswell NM.

http://www.cleveland.com/nation/index.ssf/2011/07/arizona_washes_away_dust_depos.html

 

[Biker Scout]

You know what you get in desert communities were you don't laminate your window perf? Etched Privacy Glass! :ROFLMAO:

 

[phototec]

You know what you get in desert communities were you don't laminate your window perf? Etched Privacy Glass! :ROFLMAO:

I believe that, cause when I was in a sand storm south of Phoenix driving back to Texas, my entire windshield was pitted and had to be replaced, not to mention the paint job on the front of my Blazer!

 

[Techman]

and if you follow the manufactures guidelines, you are covered under their warranty.

hah!!!!!!!!

 

[Biker Scout]

Avery doesn't count.

 

[phototec]

hah!!!!!!!!

Ok, lets put it like this:
If you play the lottery your chances of winning are one in a million (or whatever), however if you don't play the lotto, your chances of winning are "0" !!!!!

You have a better chance of warranty recovery if you follow the manufactures recommended installation procedures, then if you don't!

Get it?