Trying to settle on a printer for home production decals.

[Stickerman]

TLDR: Need printer for vibrant cartoon stickers, 1000 a week, printed on 100mic self adhesive roll, printer needs to be okay if left for couple of weeks at a time, would prefer ink to be water resistant/scratch resistant but can laminate if necessary, budget is up to £11,000, but would preferably like to be in the £7000 range for a printer and plotter, I currently don't laminate but I wouldn't mind if its a vibrant inkjet and then I laminate it for protection and outdoor use to stop fading.



I'm currently using a Mimaki UJV 100-160 printer for stickers at work, which are nice and bright although the tiny detail is lacking a bit. As i'm moving away, I want to continue printing stickers at home for online sales.

I'm currently selling around 300 individual stickers a week (not laminated), with an aim to increase this up to a few thousand per week in the next few years. The stickers are vibrantly coloured, cartoon designs, around 3 inches/76.2mm in size each, with fine design.



The printers ink would ideally be waterproof/water resistant, scratch resistant, rated for outdoor use, although i'm not adverse to using an inkjet printer and laminating.

Currently printing on 100mic self adhesive 30m roll, at 1200x1200 resolution (max), and using a Mimaki FX Plus II plotter cutter for kiss cutting, but I've been looking at getting a Graphtec for die cut and kiss cut stickers. The UV ink has not been very suitable for die cut stickers when they are bleed cut as the UV ink thickness varies, or at least that's been my experience. I've heard better thinks about Graphtec for die cutting, from the Mimaki engineer himself.



Roland BN20 for £5000, but concerns with regards to print speed, fumes, outgassing etc didn't sit right with me as it would be in an inside room at home that I would be in for long periods of time.

I was also advised that I couldn't leave it unattended for a two weeks, as the print heads will clog and not only would I void warranty for negligence it would cost £2500 to fix.

It's likely that I would be having a holiday or two per year, so the printer would need to be left unattended for a a couple of weeks at a time.



HP Latex 315, which is £11,000 because I was advised they're great for stickers, I could move into car wraps and other products, it doesn't smell - no odour, and they can be left alone for a while and the printheads are changeable, the ink won't dry out in the tubes. However it's a bit expensive for a home production. Maybe i'm just being hesitant on spending so much money on it.



Epson Surecolour SC-9500 is around £4750, and the print resolution is 2400x1200, but i'm unsure of the sticker quality in regards to how vivid the colours would be in comparison to the Mimaki UJV 100-160, or if the 100mic self adhesive roll would be suitable, I wouldn't want to change the media if possible.



I'm genuinely quite stuck, if anyone can recommend any prints that would be great. I was also wondering does anyone know of a UK company that I can request samples from for some different printers to see the quality? I don't even mind driving for a day there to see them all. Thanks for any help.

 

[netsol]

do you have 2additional 20 amp breakers (or capacity to add them?
otherwise the HP latex is out. this can be a problem at home

bn-20 is SLOW but very nice quality
you can add a small exhaust fan through an outside wall and perhaps an air scrubber

 

[Solventinkjet]

The Epson you mention is an aqueous printer so it won't make outdoor durable stickers. With laminate you could make something work but it would still fade quickly compared to a solvent or UV printer.

For your budget I would take a look at the Mimaki CJV150 series. You could get a new 30" version for around $10k or a 54" used one for around $7 - 8.

 

[netsol]

isn't latex UNDESIRABLE for labels/stickers?
the latex inks sit on top of the substrate, they don't break the surface' and penetrate the sticker, i believe

 

[Rayd8]

Latex 315 works perfectly for that. You dont meed 20amp separate beeakers for the 315 series (i use one 16amp and its sufficient as it pulls ca 2500watts), if you want a bigger one youll need it. Get the rollup unit option too you will love that. You can leave the hp easily 1-2weeks without printing, at least thats my experience, i do however power it on each week and if its unused for +2 weeks i print a small colorbar so at least the ink moves in all printheads.
They are somewhat scratch resistant but any experienced printer will tell you to laminate allways.
Hth

 

[Rayd8]

Oh yes before i forget: you could also have a look at the 115 hp latex dunno the exact diffences by heart but its cheaper.

 

[netsol]

Good to know that 1 breaker is enough
we have set up quite a few home businesses and that has been a nightmare in older houses
breaker panel already full, no room for a sub panel...

i suppose you forget the jobs that go smoothly, but always remember the ones that have you begging for electrical permits from the township and dealing with inspections

 

[Rayd8]

Good to know that 1 breaker is enough
we have set up quite a few home businesses and that has been a nightmare in older houses
breaker panel already full, no room for a sub panel...

i suppose you forget the jobs that go smoothly, but always remember the ones that have you begging for electrical permits from the township and dealing with inspections

Honestly i was worried as well because i couldnt understand quite why an 115/310/315 doesnt need two 20amp breakers and a 365 does, i theink its because they surpass the 3500w limit due to the extra heaters to cover the width. I did once see the electric wores starting to melt when i visited a seller of a hp 360 who plugged both plugs into one 50meter wire spindle and didnt unwind it. Wound uo those things loose a lot of maximum wattage they can take. But as far of the 310/315 both plugs are in one 16amp socket with an electric box that can take 3500watt and i allways check that all cables are not wound up etc just to be sure.
I see in the tech specs for the 315:

Power requirements (V / Amp / Hz)	Input voltage (auto ranging) 200 to 240 VAC (-10% +10%) two wires and PE; 50/60 Hz (+/- 3 Hz); two power cords; 3 A max for printer and 16 A max per curing
Max power consumption (kW)	2.6 kW (printing); 72 watts (ready); < 2.5 watts (sleep)

Now for the negative bits of an HP Latex:
I find they take long to power on compared to other technologies, 3-5 minutes is no exeption and newer models even take longer reading in forums.
Resolution is compared to other print technologies a bit less but honestly i dont mind nor do my clients, i can still easily print 4-5pt text. 1200dpi is the max but a lot of media profiles max out on 600dpi. Again: its a matter of taste, i personaly take this slight disadvantage with a smile.
Color issues: they are known for color shifts now and then. I only have had limited issues with this. If you need to do a wrapping, never change printheads or carts and preferably print on one roll (dont change rolls), also dactor in that due to the heat the media gets it can cause long print jobs to stretcha slight bit, which is to take into account when doing wraps and large mural covers. Key is the media, some media will stretch more than others.
It is said that latex colors are a bit duller compared to other print technologies. As i feel it depends on the colorprofile used. I tend to set anything with pictures in rgb seems more colorfull for me. Ive read that others sometimes print withour any color profile which helps too. I can show you really beautiful large color decals with vibrant colors so as far as i can experience this disadvantage which is said latexes have: i dont mind nor feel i lose a lot of color gamut.
They are plastic: yes, absolutely true, lots of parts are plastic. In two years i only had one plastic part break (which keeps the electronic board against the inkcarts chips), it was solved with opening up the left cover and two zip ties.
Media needs to be fit for the heat: bot a real disadvantage but notewurthy: when you buy non ho certified media first test it or check that it is latex compatible. Allmost all media for eco solvent will work but it could be that the heat causes this media to wrinkle. I had this woth a older roll for ecosolvent non permanent vinyl and that wrinkles when it cools down.
Maybe other members have other experiences or remarks, i only speak from personal experience after two years of latex and two HP Latex printers.
As for the advantages, for me they outweigh the negative ones
- no odor or exhausts needed
- printheads replacable per color (even if hp warrants only one litre per head you can stretch them till ca 4-5litres depending on use)
- no daily/weekly maintenance, only change the maintenance cart, i think i change it only once till now casts about 160usd. Do note there are thre maintenace kits that need to be installed/executed after a lot of usage, factor those in when calculating. I thins the expensove one will be after ca 10000m2 printing, it depends on the number of printhead and maintenecestation movements.
- near no blocked printheads, i can leave them powered off for 2-3weeks, after that you’ll need some headcleanings, i try to power them up each week and print a small colorpatches each two weeks.
- ink doesnt dry in the ink tubes, you can leave them for long periodes powered off without flushing the ink tubes: one year? Nonproblem here in central europe. Do kind you will need to put new printemhead in ar ca 160usd per head.
- print and laminate at once: yes, you can directly laminate the printouts, huge advantage over eco solvent which needs to outgass. Even if you dont laminate yet you will love this very quickly
Maybe other members can add from their experience.
Hth

 

[Rayd8]

sorry for the typos, smartphone post
And no im not affiliated nor work for HP (if they need a good tech/trainer/support english/french/dutch/german they now know where to find me). I do love the technology and solution they offer with this latex technology. I bought an evo solvent in 2016 and due to the fact i didnt print a lot it basically ate printheads and was a real finanvial noghtmare for me due to this (i admit: i shouldnt have bought eco solvent if you dont print daily/weekly), now i can enjoy again the smell of vinyl, the moving printheads creating wunderfull things, excluding the printheadnightmares

 

[netsol]

if you search, we had quite a few threads regarding power requirements etc for the HP's
all the bigger faster ones consume a huge amount of power & HAVE THAT ISSUE WHERE they require 240v with no option
to move a dip switch to adjust for towns where local power comes in a few volts low

i often refer to this as the DON'T ADJUST THE MACHINE, RAISE THE VOLTAGE FOR THE TOWN syndrome, (only a company as big and dominant [and stubborn] as HP does this)

 

[Rayd8]

Yeah i dont need to heat the room where the hps are in the winter, thats my way of saving on the electric bill. Quite logical as most substrates heat at around 100-110°C. Luckily the electric cost per kw is going down again

 

[netsol]

Yeah i dont need to heat the room where the hps are in the winter, thats my way of saving on the electric bill. Quite logical as most substrates heat at around 100-110°C. Luckily the electric cost per kw is going down again

i would certainly put in a "through the wall (1950's style) exhaust fan if you have an outside wall
there are a couple threads showing how to build your own air scrubber from 2 components from amazon, probably a good investment for a home printing business

 

[Solventinkjet]

i would certainly put in a "through the wall (1950's style) exhaust fan if you have an outside wall
there are a couple threads showing how to build your own air scrubber from 2 components from amazon, probably a good investment for a home printing business

Agreed. A lot of people like the HP because it's non-toxic inks but forget that heating vinyl up to 100 degrees releases all kinds of bad stuff into the air that are particularly dangerous to kid's development.

 

[Stickerman]

Honestly i was worried as well because i couldnt understand quite why an 115/310/315 doesnt need two 20amp breakers and a 365 does, i theink its because they surpass the 3500w limit due to the extra heaters to cover the width. I did once see the electric wores starting to melt when i visited a seller of a hp 360 who plugged both plugs into one 50meter wire spindle and didnt unwind it. Wound uo those things loose a lot of maximum wattage they can take. But as far of the 310/315 both plugs are in one 16amp socket with an electric box that can take 3500watt and i allways check that all cables are not wound up etc just to be sure.
I see in the tech specs for the 315:

Power requirements (V / Amp / Hz)	Input voltage (auto ranging) 200 to 240 VAC (-10% +10%) two wires and PE; 50/60 Hz (+/- 3 Hz); two power cords; 3 A max for printer and 16 A max per curing
Max power consumption (kW)	2.6 kW (printing); 72 watts (ready); < 2.5 watts (sleep)

Now for the negative bits of an HP Latex:
I find they take long to power on compared to other technologies, 3-5 minutes is no exeption and newer models even take longer reading in forums.
Resolution is compared to other print technologies a bit less but honestly i dont mind nor do my clients, i can still easily print 4-5pt text. 1200dpi is the max but a lot of media profiles max out on 600dpi. Again: its a matter of taste, i personaly take this slight disadvantage with a smile.
Color issues: they are known for color shifts now and then. I only have had limited issues with this. If you need to do a wrapping, never change printheads or carts and preferably print on one roll (dont change rolls), also dactor in that due to the heat the media gets it can cause long print jobs to stretcha slight bit, which is to take into account when doing wraps and large mural covers. Key is the media, some media will stretch more than others.
It is said that latex colors are a bit duller compared to other print technologies. As i feel it depends on the colorprofile used. I tend to set anything with pictures in rgb seems more colorfull for me. Ive read that others sometimes print withour any color profile which helps too. I can show you really beautiful large color decals with vibrant colors so as far as i can experience this disadvantage which is said latexes have: i dont mind nor feel i lose a lot of color gamut.
They are plastic: yes, absolutely true, lots of parts are plastic. In two years i only had one plastic part break (which keeps the electronic board against the inkcarts chips), it was solved with opening up the left cover and two zip ties.
Media needs to be fit for the heat: bot a real disadvantage but notewurthy: when you buy non ho certified media first test it or check that it is latex compatible. Allmost all media for eco solvent will work but it could be that the heat causes this media to wrinkle. I had this woth a older roll for ecosolvent non permanent vinyl and that wrinkles when it cools down.
Maybe other members have other experiences or remarks, i only speak from personal experience after two years of latex and two HP Latex printers.
As for the advantages, for me they outweigh the negative ones
- no odor or exhausts needed
- printheads replacable per color (even if hp warrants only one litre per head you can stretch them till ca 4-5litres depending on use)
- no daily/weekly maintenance, only change the maintenance cart, i think i change it only once till now casts about 160usd. Do note there are thre maintenace kits that need to be installed/executed after a lot of usage, factor those in when calculating. I thins the expensove one will be after ca 10000m2 printing, it depends on the number of printhead and maintenecestation movements.
- near no blocked printheads, i can leave them powered off for 2-3weeks, after that you’ll need some headcleanings, i try to power them up each week and print a small colorpatches each two weeks.
- ink doesnt dry in the ink tubes, you can leave them for long periodes powered off without flushing the ink tubes: one year? Nonproblem here in central europe. Do kind you will need to put new printemhead in ar ca 160usd per head.
- print and laminate at once: yes, you can directly laminate the printouts, huge advantage over eco solvent which needs to outgass. Even if you dont laminate yet you will love this very quickly
Maybe other members can add from their experience.
Hth

What do you print the most of with your Latex printer? Banners, stickers, posters etc, thanks.

 

[Stickerman]

The Epson you mention is an aqueous printer so it won't make outdoor durable stickers. With laminate you could make something work but it would still fade quickly compared to a solvent or UV printer.

For your budget I would take a look at the Mimaki CJV150 series. You could get a new 30" version for around $10k or a 54" used one for around $7 - 8.

I'm going to have a look at the Mimaki CJV 150 series on monday at a showroom, what do you think about the Roland VG3-300 as an option too?

 

[Stickerman]

Thank you everyone for your messages, I really appreciate it.

 

[Humble PM]

I know aqueous is frowned upon here, but with laminated prints we get 5+ years external sunlit life (London, not Coventry). We run through a few rolls of IJM538 (80micron, monomeric) with Drytac Photosatin UV (40micron), each month - we get rich, vibrant, detailed prints that pass for gallery photographic at close inspection. This is on a Canon 8400.

Prograf 2100's dual roll have been going new for <£3k recently. Custom profile for the vinyl and laminate definately a benefit, but this will likely also work for other plastic materials. Would leave budget for laminator and cutter.
Definately not suggesting this for raps, or anything other than flat or simple curves.

 

[Stickerman]

I know aqueous is frowned upon here, but with laminated prints we get 5+ years external sunlit life (London, not Coventry). We run through a few rolls of IJM538 (80micron, monomeric) with Drytac Photosatin UV (40micron), each month - we get rich, vibrant, detailed prints that pass for gallery photographic at close inspection. This is on a Canon 8400.

Prograf 2100's dual roll have been going new for <£3k recently. Custom profile for the vinyl and laminate definately a benefit, but this will likely also work for other plastic materials. Would leave budget for laminator and cutter.
Definately not suggesting this for raps, or anything other than flat or simple curves.

Would you mind posting some of your laminated prints so I can inspect them with my untrained eye?

 

[Humble PM]

Sure - I'll run some standard test prints in the morning.

 

[Rayd8]

What do you print the most of with your Latex printer? Banners, stickers, posters etc, thanks.

Yes all but on paper, for that i've got my pigment Epson printer (but off course you could print those on the Latex too). I mostly do stickers and fleet decals but also print on banners and some wraps.