Ultima 1400d rogue cut when contouring

[tsgstl]

I have a Mutoh 1400d ultima plotter paired with my VJ
When I contour a job it cuts a roughly 8" 45degree cut from the bottom right left and up through my print job. This ruins anything in its path obviously. It started when I switched to a new computer with windows 7. I talked with Mutoh and they said it has issues with that operating software. My computer also makes the sound of being disconnected and connected randomly while I am doing a contour cut. I have been dealing with this problem with putting white boxes in that area or removing effected decals after I cut. It frequently locks up my mouse with the constant disconnecting sound making it almost impossible to work while contouring.

I was trying to hold off asking to many questions on here until I got my paid subscription going but I am printing and cutting 1000 20"x12" and 10"x6" labels so it will cost me at least 10% time and product.

Thank you for any help on this issue!

 

[Graphics2u]

I'm not running win 7 but i have had that happen on my setup also. Usually it happens when I have done something out of the ordinary like abort a job part way through a cut or something like that. Then it will do it. Normally I only need to shut it off and turn it back on to fix it. And this happens very rarely. Running XP and Flexi 8.6. Does it only do it when contour cutting or doesit do it with just a regular cut job that is sent to it?

 

[tsgstl]

Only contour print and cut. I can cut regular files just fine if I send directly to plotter.
It is always on saved plot files. And it does it 100% of the time. It does it right after it reads the lines and before it starts cutting. Almost like it is part of the reading the line process.

 

[CRD]

Try to save the contour layer as a file in EPS format.
Open Summa winplot (free download) and import the contour EPS file and run the contour without knife and see what happens.

Paco

 

[Graphics2u]

Only contour print and cut. I can cut regular files just fine if I send directly to plotter.
It is always on saved plot files. And it does it 100% of the time. It does it right after it reads the lines and before it starts cutting. Almost like it is part of the reading the line process.

So this is always on jobs that you hav saved in Production manager and are trying to cut with again?

 

[tsgstl]

So this is always on jobs that you hav saved in Production manager and are trying to cut with again?

precisely

for example I have 12 of these logos set to cut
I will have 40 something sheets 4'-5' long to get my 500
I will loose 1 on each sheet

 

[HaroldDesign]

I've had the same thing happen with it dragging the knife across the print. I haven't had the disconnect issue, though. I unplugged the power for a while and then it was fine. Just guessing, but I think the machine has memory that can mess up the buffering, and is cleared when the power is cut.

 

[tsgstl]

yes this has been happening for almost a year now. It has been turned on and off hundreds of times.

 

[Graphics2u]

What software are you using? Using the Mutoh registration box, correct?

Are you saving the the file and adding it again when you're ready to cut or are you holding the file and just resending it for the next sheet you have to cut? The reason I ask is I can not save a contour file and add it again and have it work right. If a print and cut job is sent to Production Manager together they work fine as long as I never remove them from the queue but if I save it to a archive folder then add it again it will not cut correctly. But as long as they are left in the queue I can cut as many copies as I want.

 

[tsgstl]

I'm using Flexi 8.5
I have done both even saved separate plot files, all doing the same thing.
I have been using this setup before this started for 4 years give or take. I never once had this problem. Mutoh recognizes the issue but really was of no help to solve it.
Besides having to use a extremely large amount of material before and after a cut job (obnoxious that you need 16" or so of wasted material for a cut job. I have had great success with the Mutoh.
Mutoh seems only concerned with their printers. I had a Mutoh plotter from 95-2002 and loved it. Now I miss my graphtec work horse

 

[Graphics2u]

Well that's a concern to me also, because I been debating upgrading to Win 7. Your problem has to do with Win 7 for sure then? is it 32 bit or 64 bit? Can you run it in XP compatibility mode to help? Sound like some sort of compatibility issue with the usb driver if it keeps connecting and disconnecting.

Just a thought but you might try to gain some help from Mutoh in Europe, I think they are more involved with the plotters. I was told there are only some parts that are stocked anymore in the US for the Ultimas. I love this cutter though, so easy to use for contours cut registration.

 

[randya]

I'm using Flexi 8.5
I have done both even saved separate plot files, all doing the same thing.
I have been using this setup before this started for 4 years give or take. I never once had this problem. Mutoh recognizes the issue but really was of no help to solve it.
Besides having to use a extremely large amount of material before and after a cut job (obnoxious that you need 16" or so of wasted material for a cut job. I have had great success with the Mutoh.
Mutoh seems only concerned with their printers. I had a Mutoh plotter from 95-2002 and loved it. Now I miss my graphtec work horse

It looks like there is a Win 7 driver:
ftp://ftp.mutoh.com/Printer Information_Manuals/Ultima Cutters/Drivers_Utilities/

So I am not sure what the issue is.


If you will PM me the serial# I will look up the history.

 

[tsgstl]

Yes it is 64 bit
And yes I got the 64 bit driver from Mutoh Europe, I had issues on the computer swap as was expected.
Mutoh has been completely helpful on all problems I have had and completely honest about not being able to fix it. Granted I have not contacted them since last summer when this all took place, but my problem was documented and I was told if and when there was a solution I would be notified. I thought I would give this problem a shot on here before I called Mutoh again to see if they had a fix.

I would suggest contacting Mutoh to see if they have a solution before buying windows 7. Or maybe I can get a answer for you. I upgrade a new pc every 3/4 years or so and pass my other one on to my wife aka my accounting department. I figured unless I buy another copy of flexi it wouldn't work off of the old pc. Dealing with the problem has just had to do for now.

We do a lot of numbered decals outsourced from a screenprint label company and those are a PITA to break apart and pick out which 2 or 3 in each batch need to be redone

 

[tsgstl]

It looks like there is a Win 7 driver:
ftp://ftp.mutoh.com/Printer Information_Manuals/Ultima Cutters/Drivers_Utilities/

So I am not sure what the issue is.


If you will PM me the serial# I will look up the history.

I will tomorrow when I get in. I'm open to anything

 

[Graphics2u]

a few more things.

1. I'm sure you have, but if not try moving around the usb cables to different ports on the computer.

2. Similar to you, I have had my usb mouse freeze up alot and it only happens when the cutter is working on a job. I found that what was causing it was static electricity. I kept noticing a snapping noise as the cutter was feeding material, and sometimes when it snapped my mouse froze briefly on the screen if I was moving it. Sometimes it started to work again and sometimes not (had to unplug it and plug it in again). The static was coming from the unrolling of material on the supply rollers. the pictures below show my crude fix. It has improved the problem of the mouse freezing by 95%. Also be sure the USB cable to the Cutter and the one to your mouse are not touching each other.

3. If you send a print and cut job from Flexi to Production manager will it work correctly the first time you send it and only make the rogue cuts on repeat jobs?

4. What happens if you send only the contour job to Productiuon Manager?

 

[tsgstl]

I have always wondered if the disconnect sound could possibly be a static issue completely separate from the cut line. It just makes the most sense. It does seem to do it more when feeding a lot of material back and forth. Your idea grounding it looks brilliant, I will def try that. As far as cables... that was my first guess as well. I went through every USB cable I have had, I know long USB cables have issues. I now have it closer to my PC. And I have had every combo imaginable. Unfortunately last fall I tripped over the USB breaking off the female end connected to the motherboard (really wasn't that bad to fix. It is possible that it is a static issue as it does feed a lot of material back and forth when finding registration lines. And it causes a glitch forcing the rogue cut. I am going to take your advice and ground my roller. Thanks for the tip!!

Hard to tell from your pic, but I would throw a couple of zip ties around that USB cable connected to the legs. That masking tape wont save a 175lb slip, and those female ends are just plastic with 2 small spot welds.

 

[Graphics2u]

I can't believe it! My usb port on the cutters mainboard is broken also! I had to slide the little piece of plastic back in between the prongs on the port and then plug the cable back in and hope for the best. been working 3 years like that, but I've never unplugged that end again. Mine broke by a roll of vinyl being pulled off the rollers on the back and catching the cable as it fell. If I tripped on it it'd be broke for good, been awhile since I've seen 175 pounds!

I've always been gonna make a better ground strap, maybe out of a thin piece of copper that rubs on both of the rollers, but never got around to it yet.

 

[tsgstl]

I can't believe it! My usb port on the cutters mainboard is broken also! I had to slide the little piece of plastic back in between the prongs on the port and then plug the cable back in and hope for the best. been working 3 years like that, but I've never unplugged that end again. Mine broke by a roll of vinyl being pulled off the rollers on the back and catching the cable as it fell. If I tripped on it it'd be broke for good, been awhile since I've seen 175 pounds!

I've always been gonna make a better ground strap, maybe out of a thin piece of copper that rubs on both of the rollers, but never got around to it yet.

HAHA to funny well not really. It is not to terribly hard to fix if you know how to solder very very small(or in my case have a IT buddy). The female USB is the same as most on a desktop printer. Pop one of those off and solder it on the motherboard. My wires were all to out of place to glue it back together. The USB port is very inexpensive online to order if you cant find one.

AND NOW FOR THE THANK YOU
WOW I can't thank you enough!!!!!!
I think you fixed at least half of my problem.
I haven't sent a contour job through yet, but my constant disconect/connect problem DOES seem to be a static issue. As I was reading your post with the pics I was sending a job with 24" blue vinyl by about 20' it was making the sound and freezing my mouse. I rigged up the wire exactly how you have it and sent the second half of the file. I have not had the problem since the rig job. I do hear a slight crackle in my speakers when it is forwarding or reversing large amounts of material but no disconnect sound YET. OK OK when the job finished it forwarded all 20' and then back again, it did it one time. Maybe if I gorund it on both side or both rollers. Bottom line it did it the first time 6-8 times, after the ground 1 time. If it fixed my contour problem I'm buying you a brewskee!

 

[Graphics2u]

Glad it helped! I fought that off and on for a couple years before I stumbled on to that idea. Make sure the outlet you're plugged into is actually grounded also. If it's a newer building it probably is but some older places just have the three pronged outlets with no actual ground. Winter Time is the worst too! Always more static.

 

[tsgstl]

New building but I'm having the same problem!!

Although I am more convinced now than ever that it is a static problem. The 24" is almost eliminated with the wire ground. But with 50" material there is more than twice as much charge building up. I almost want to make a new thread talking about static buildup to see if any other plotters have this issue. I used my fingers to lightly touch the material as it was feeding back and forth to see if my body could absorb the static. You could feel the static in my legs and I was more than a foot away from it. And that was the last job so it was completely off of the rollers. One thing interesting I did notice, I had to send the same piece through twice and the 45degree cut was different the second time. So the cut is some form of glitch confusion that is separate from the cut file. You can here the charge popping and that is when it makes the disconnect sound. I think I am on the right track at least.

My plotter is on a concrete floor I know I never had this problem at my old place and it was on carpet. I am second guessing my timeline of when this problem started even though I know it was when I switched computers and started using windows 7.

My next test will be a very small test contour cut file so not as much material will feed through to see if the cut line is eliminated.