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Vinyl Types

kapelskic

New Member
I guess this is going to sound like a Newbie question to most so I guess I shall place it here. I have recently purchased a vinyl cutter from a friend and i have been doing odd jobs with it here and there. Since I started I have been using Oracal 651 vinyl, mainly because I acquired a decent amount for free. I have grown over the past month or so to do some bigger jobs that are going to be outside. 1 job is a business entrance sign 1 job is some speed limit signs and the other is an advertising decal on a SUV window. The question is, will the Oracal 651 vinyl hold up well outside and endure the weather or should I really use something more like the Oracal 751 vinyl for these jobs?

Any and all comments are greatly appreciated in advanced. Thanks!

Chris
 

gabagoo

New Member
Calendered vinyl can be considered for outdoor use but be warned that it is not designed to last long on vehicles although I have in some cases seen blacks and whites last well over 5 years. Generally you want to use the right product for the job and should always try to sell a customer a cast vinyl for outdoor use, especially on vehicles. If the customer does not like the price you can explain to him the difference and let him decide. I have also noticed over the years that if you have northern exposure, calendered vinyls will last much much longer outdoors. South and west take the brunt of the sun and all vinyls will be tested to their maximum durabilities. Having said that I have a vinyl test board on my rear door. it is a 051 aluminum panel and it faces due south and the black oracal 651 is still holding up and I can say the piece has been out there since 2002
 

Jim Doggett

New Member
I'd suggest using Premium as a rule, unless it's a down and dirty cheapy or temp. Especially use premium on windows and vehicles to avoid dirty edges due to the calendered face stock shrinking more than the adhesive layer.

Plus, vehicles and windows are great work. No substrate, which is typically lower margin than the graphic.

My $0.02,

jd
 

kapelskic

New Member
It would appear as though the count is tied for outdoor application. Can anyone else help to shed some light on whether it is necessary to use Oracal 751 outdoors or will 651 do just fine???
 

Jim Doggett

New Member
"Outdoors" is pretty ambiguous, but sure; 651 works fine outdoors. It's thicker and less conformable (not best for vehicles); and shinks more and faster (not great for windows). But it'll last 3 to 5 years outdoors, no prob.
 

kapelskic

New Member
Outdoors as in northern Ohio. Speed limit signs will be side of the road obviously and the business sign will be above their entrance.
 

Jim Doggett

New Member
Outdoors as in northern Ohio. Speed limit signs will be side of the road obviously and the business sign will be above their entrance.

Hi Kapelskic,

Thanks for the additional info. OK sure; in N-OH you have less sun to fade the vinyl, as compared to Death Valley, for example. But, I think you're focused on climate when you should be thinking in terms of how it's being used.

Forgive me if this is not new information. But here are the basics:

Cast
Liquid PVC is poured onto a casting line into a thin, flat sheet where it solidifies. The molecules are reasonably happy in that form, and thus it shrinks less. Nothing is forever, and indeed time and environment breaks it down, fades it, etc. But it lasts a long time; typically 7-9 years.

Calendered
A big block of PCV goes through rollers, making it a sheet that's pretty thin but not as thin as Cast. However, the molecules want to go back to being a block; so it shrinks faster than Cast. Much faster. Also, being thicker, it doesn't conform to creases in car bodies or compound curved sufaces as elegantly as Cast. But it's cheaper to make, and great for flat applications, simples curves and temporary signage.

That's the face stock. But underneath it is an adhesive layer; attached, but still separate. Cast, being a longer lasting film often has a more long-lasting adhesive. Calendered being a shorter term film, doesn't need as long-lasting an adhesive. But both adhesives are weather-resistant, for indoor or outdoor use.

With Cast film, which shrinks less, the face-stock and adhesive remain the same size, for the most part, over the life of the product.

Calendered face-stock shrinks faster than the adhesive, exposing the adhesive layer at the edges of the graphic. Then dust carried on the wind collects, and it creates a thin border of dirty-looking adhesive around the image, which can be unsightly and fairly apparent on cars and windows, close up.

Also, Calendered being thicker, is tougher to press into crevices and such and thus tends to pull out of them over time. That creates a potential for peeling up as water, dust and air gets between the adhesive and the car, or whatever surface.

So it's a balance between savings and potential problems; keeping in mind that problems cost you money (if the customer demands you fix it) or your customer goodwill (if like most, they say nothing, but write you off as mediocre.)

To avoid blowback, some sign-makers sell cheaper stuff, with a strong disclaimer. But it's anyone's guess what the customer goodwill loss might be when selling a poorer product. Often customers experience the problem after forgetting they saved money and understood the disclaimer. Perhaps. It's a crap-shoot.

So I'd just advise sellng the good stuff to be safe, unless it's down and drity banners, temp signs, etc. You'll not have to replace stuff and hopefully earn high customer satisfaction.

In short, you'll sleep better, which you can't even buy with MasterCard. Truly priceless :^)

Best Regards,

Jim
 

kapelskic

New Member
Jim,

The information on the differences between cast and calendered was not new to me. However, the insight on all the possible problems and other things was very useful. I guess in the long run I would just be better off buying the good stuff. Even if it's double the price. Especially if it turns a one time customer into a returning client. Thanks!!
 
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