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What CNC Router should I buy
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- Start date
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
lots of questions should be answered before you make this purchase.
what type of work do you intend to do with your router? i know shops that are never going to do anything other than cut custom shape panels, i know other shops that are going to be doing full 2.5 dimension pieces all day long everyday. the needs of those shops are very different.
what is your budget? make sure to include installation (including electrical work, any build out you may need to do so that the router is not in an area where you do 'clean work', any sound proofing you may have to do because of neighbors or adjoining office, etc), training, software, dust collection, bits, etc.
how much room do you have?
i can not stress this enough and i hear it from EVERYONE that purchases a router...the learning curve is most likely unlike anything you have ever been through..yeah yeah yeah save me the 'oh we went through it with digital printing' this is a much different beast. do not put yourself into a position where you need this purchase to be making you a profit the day you bring it into your shop..you may get lucky and blow through the learning process, a few people do and i can spot those people almost immediately after a couple conversations and identifying how they learn and how they think about things in their mind, some people have a very difficult time thinking about things multi-dimensionally (spacially).
so i am reluctant to just throw out brand names and models...this is a big investment and needs to be researched.
what type of work do you intend to do with your router? i know shops that are never going to do anything other than cut custom shape panels, i know other shops that are going to be doing full 2.5 dimension pieces all day long everyday. the needs of those shops are very different.
what is your budget? make sure to include installation (including electrical work, any build out you may need to do so that the router is not in an area where you do 'clean work', any sound proofing you may have to do because of neighbors or adjoining office, etc), training, software, dust collection, bits, etc.
how much room do you have?
i can not stress this enough and i hear it from EVERYONE that purchases a router...the learning curve is most likely unlike anything you have ever been through..yeah yeah yeah save me the 'oh we went through it with digital printing' this is a much different beast. do not put yourself into a position where you need this purchase to be making you a profit the day you bring it into your shop..you may get lucky and blow through the learning process, a few people do and i can spot those people almost immediately after a couple conversations and identifying how they learn and how they think about things in their mind, some people have a very difficult time thinking about things multi-dimensionally (spacially).
so i am reluctant to just throw out brand names and models...this is a big investment and needs to be researched.
Techman
New Member
If you have no clue what to buy then you are way out of step with the facts.
Do you know about center finding? do you know about Cartesian co-ordiantes?
Do you know about offsets? Do you know about ramping?
First learn about this stuff then start looking at a router.
This has been discussed several times here. So a search and find out for yourself.
And then There are lots of routers out there being dumped because the buyer thought it was going to be easy and found out the market is saturated with lowballers just like the vinyl market is.
And that a large number of shops are no longer profitable because the work is gone so they are unloading their machines as fast as they can find a buyer. There recently was a multicam for 5 grand. And an xyz for 7 grand locally.
But remember this. If you get a cnc router you will have a dirty work environment. I do not mean a little dust. I mean LOTS of dust and every thing around it will be covered with it. You got a flat bed now and have dust problems.. Just wait. You ain't seen nutin.
Another multicam just went for $5 grand over in New England area. I know who got it. I know the seller. The seller could never make money with it and dumped it.
The buyer has spent an additional $8 grand just to set up and he is not even ready to cut yet.
So think long and hard before you jump. IT ain't printing. It's 3D mental work to run it. And unless you have some 3D mental skills you are sunk. These skills are not something you just pickup with some trial and error. Either you have it or you do not.
Do you know about center finding? do you know about Cartesian co-ordiantes?
Do you know about offsets? Do you know about ramping?
First learn about this stuff then start looking at a router.
This has been discussed several times here. So a search and find out for yourself.
And then There are lots of routers out there being dumped because the buyer thought it was going to be easy and found out the market is saturated with lowballers just like the vinyl market is.
And that a large number of shops are no longer profitable because the work is gone so they are unloading their machines as fast as they can find a buyer. There recently was a multicam for 5 grand. And an xyz for 7 grand locally.
But remember this. If you get a cnc router you will have a dirty work environment. I do not mean a little dust. I mean LOTS of dust and every thing around it will be covered with it. You got a flat bed now and have dust problems.. Just wait. You ain't seen nutin.
Another multicam just went for $5 grand over in New England area. I know who got it. I know the seller. The seller could never make money with it and dumped it.
The buyer has spent an additional $8 grand just to set up and he is not even ready to cut yet.
So think long and hard before you jump. IT ain't printing. It's 3D mental work to run it. And unless you have some 3D mental skills you are sunk. These skills are not something you just pickup with some trial and error. Either you have it or you do not.
CES020
New Member
I don't have all the terminology down, so pardon me if I use the wrong words here, but if you have a flatbed printer, are you looking for a CNC router, or a CNC cutter that has a router head attachment? BIGGGGGG difference.
I would think if you are printing flatbed, you'd want to contour cut stuff like coroplast, sintra, etc. You'd need an electronic eye to know where all your work is. You're not going to get that type of stuff with a $30,000 CNC router made to cut out signs, etc.
You'd need a cutter made for that that has the blade on it, the eye on it so it can pick up registration marks and cut your profiles. They have various heads that go on them, so you can put a lightweight router head on them and cut denser materials than the knife will cut.
Those machines are also well above $60,000, probably closer to the $80-90,000 range.
If I said something incorrect, someone please correct me.
I would think if you are printing flatbed, you'd want to contour cut stuff like coroplast, sintra, etc. You'd need an electronic eye to know where all your work is. You're not going to get that type of stuff with a $30,000 CNC router made to cut out signs, etc.
You'd need a cutter made for that that has the blade on it, the eye on it so it can pick up registration marks and cut your profiles. They have various heads that go on them, so you can put a lightweight router head on them and cut denser materials than the knife will cut.
Those machines are also well above $60,000, probably closer to the $80-90,000 range.
If I said something incorrect, someone please correct me.
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
actually CE there are ways to setup your files so that you can take a printed sheet from a flat bed place it on your router and cut it to shape without an optical registration system (an eye). it requires setting up your files in a certain manner but it is absolutely possible...you can do it with a shopbot.
just takes a little setup and understanding of your machine, software, etc.
just takes a little setup and understanding of your machine, software, etc.
Pro Signs & Graphix
New Member
There is no easy answer. The less you spend, the more you work. Unless you know how to maintain the machine, and do not need any training, the best machine is from the vendor that will give you the most technical support.
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
depends on what material you are cutting if a knife is better than a router, most shops that i have encountered if they are cutting complex shapes (something other than squares and rectangles) they use a router, but then you have to have a separate area because of dust and debris generated from the router . there are also knife assemblies available for cnc routers...i know of one person who even cuts VINYL with their cnc router, now i don't think this is a very good use of the tool, but it can be done.
Thanx guys,
space and money are not really my issues,
my problem here on the island is that the sales guys most of the time say thats whatyou need not because we need it it's based on margine, we mostly do in this days interior design ans shopfitting, we left the sign marked for the cheap vinyl guys... there is a router in town run by " we are not interrested in a cooporatin" guys so sooner or later we
have to go down that road and i start rather sooner to look into it than later.
Rgds
Frank
space and money are not really my issues,
my problem here on the island is that the sales guys most of the time say thats whatyou need not because we need it it's based on margine, we mostly do in this days interior design ans shopfitting, we left the sign marked for the cheap vinyl guys... there is a router in town run by " we are not interrested in a cooporatin" guys so sooner or later we
have to go down that road and i start rather sooner to look into it than later.
Rgds
Frank
Just Another Sign Guy
New Member
i love how people who own a particular brand think that is the answer...multicams are reliable machines that will get the job done, but there are MANY other choices...
when this post began we had no idea what his budget was, what his space requirements were...we now know that money and space are not concerns so heck if money is of no concern there are higher end machines than multicam...go all out..yee haw life is short
since this member is in Greece the best advice i feel i can give him is to research what brands have trained technicians close to you. it would be the pits to buy a north american brand, have it shipped in, fighting your way through electrical conversions, receiving training via phone and internet (or paying top dollar to send a tech on a Greek vacation...but hey i'd love to go to Greece if you need training) and then down the line if/when a problem arises having parts be days out and having to install them yourself because you can't find anyone familiar with your machine...
when this post began we had no idea what his budget was, what his space requirements were...we now know that money and space are not concerns so heck if money is of no concern there are higher end machines than multicam...go all out..yee haw life is short
since this member is in Greece the best advice i feel i can give him is to research what brands have trained technicians close to you. it would be the pits to buy a north american brand, have it shipped in, fighting your way through electrical conversions, receiving training via phone and internet (or paying top dollar to send a tech on a Greek vacation...but hey i'd love to go to Greece if you need training) and then down the line if/when a problem arises having parts be days out and having to install them yourself because you can't find anyone familiar with your machine...
Pro Signs & Graphix
New Member
Frank,
Maybe Andy will chime in. Do you know anybody in the UK? If we were in your position we would probably look to find what people are happy using there. Because of the proximity, you can easily obtain whatever brands are there and that way you are not at the mercy of one distributor, yet you can still get the necessary support you need.
You may even want to post the same question on uksignboards.com
Maybe Andy will chime in. Do you know anybody in the UK? If we were in your position we would probably look to find what people are happy using there. Because of the proximity, you can easily obtain whatever brands are there and that way you are not at the mercy of one distributor, yet you can still get the necessary support you need.
You may even want to post the same question on uksignboards.com
nashvillesigns
Making America great, one sign at a time.
hey techman,
i am in the boston area, and, who was it that got a router on the cheap? there are quite a few around here, but people still charge 85-90 dollars an hour, and seem to say, "it took forever to cut that" yea right. lol.
i am in the boston area, and, who was it that got a router on the cheap? there are quite a few around here, but people still charge 85-90 dollars an hour, and seem to say, "it took forever to cut that" yea right. lol.
grampa dan
New Member
I have a MultiCam 3000 series router and recommend them based on my experience and top notch service from my local dealer. I did extensive research before buying and now five years later am still very happy with my choice.
There are multiCam dealers relatively close to you. If you want to kick the tires on a MultiCam go to multiCam's website and follow the links on the front page.
If you want more information based on my experience drop me an email.
-grampa dan
dan@imaginationcorporation.ca
There are multiCam dealers relatively close to you. If you want to kick the tires on a MultiCam go to multiCam's website and follow the links on the front page.
If you want more information based on my experience drop me an email.
-grampa dan
dan@imaginationcorporation.ca
Personally, I think you are putting the cart before the horse.
A router does 3 things and three things only. Goes forwards, backwards, up and down. Simple.
Various machines will do it faster, possess more "grunt", have vaccuum beds, blah blah blah.
But a router alone is useless. A router needs to read "machine language" from a CAD / CAM program. Usually referred to as G Code. All machines basically understand either the same, similar or different G Code.
Before I would consider a router, I would look into the design programs available to actually get the machine to do the work you intend to do. There are many out there.
Put simply, you may have a library of Chinese newspapers but unless you can read Chinese, it's all going to mean nothing to you.
Cheers - G.
A router does 3 things and three things only. Goes forwards, backwards, up and down. Simple.
Various machines will do it faster, possess more "grunt", have vaccuum beds, blah blah blah.
But a router alone is useless. A router needs to read "machine language" from a CAD / CAM program. Usually referred to as G Code. All machines basically understand either the same, similar or different G Code.
Before I would consider a router, I would look into the design programs available to actually get the machine to do the work you intend to do. There are many out there.
Put simply, you may have a library of Chinese newspapers but unless you can read Chinese, it's all going to mean nothing to you.
Cheers - G.
Artcam Pro is all you need, design the basics in corel and import it in, It's 2d, 2.5d and 3d design and has its own post processor, cheap as chips (compared to a good rip) and does almost everything.
Routers are not that hard to operate or programme. The hardest part is the getting to know each individual machines capabilities and it's tooling. Don't let cartesian coordinates etc scare you, it's basic stuff (2 steps forward, 2 steps back, 1 step up Blah blah blah) look up 5 axis machining, that's harder to programme. And you won't need to know g-code unless you want to tweak a repeat programme, your vinyl cutter basically runs with g-code.
I'm not saying anyone is wrong, i'm just explaining it from my experience. I say jump into it, you'll have a blast learning.
grampa dan
New Member
There are some great programs out there that while not child's play are not that hard to learn. We use EnRoute Pro in our shop with wonderful success. Each program has things it does best and a few things some of the others do not do. Simply do your homework. Purchase a program and router that does the things you want to do. Keep room in the equation for expansion so you don't run out of program or router in the future.
I'm not at all a technical type guy and yet we can do things that amazed the folks that wrote our program. Before I bought our router I didn't know what a vector was, never mind operate any kind of computerized machine including a plotter or printer. Now we are one of the industry leaders in CNC 3D routing. Go figure!
-grampa dan
I'm not at all a technical type guy and yet we can do things that amazed the folks that wrote our program. Before I bought our router I didn't know what a vector was, never mind operate any kind of computerized machine including a plotter or printer. Now we are one of the industry leaders in CNC 3D routing. Go figure!
-grampa dan
klemgraphics
New Member
Don't know if anyone on here has one but Thermwood builds some high end machines. I have done work for the executives in the company and the facility is only about 10 minutes away from my shop. I doubt I could afford one but they would be my first choice.