What would you pay? What employees are worth.

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

Hi all.
I would like to see what an average wage is for installers out there.

Im an installer at a sign shop in a small community on the coast of British Columbia. I've been in the sign business close to 30 years. In fact, I have a plotter, that still works, and runs on Windows 95!

Over the years my employer has googled sign install wages and has informed me that I must be the highest paid sign installer in the world.
So Im wondering what you guys/girls would pay for an installer with 30 years experience.

I've been with this same company now for 12 years. I am in charge of ALL installs and fabrication. I am in charge of all the printing, laminating and cutting.
I deal with customers, take their orders, delegate design jobs to one of two designers who work with me. I quote on jobs, arrange install times and organize all jobs in, and out of the shop.
Im in charge of all inventory, ordering and receiving. I keep the shop extremely clean, neat and organized, and I even clean the bathroom.

Because we are in such a small town community, there are a limited number, if any, installers in the area.

My boss recently needed some time off and has been basically absent for the last 6-8 months. My two designers (one works remotely and the other is in house and also the front end girl) kept the business going and running successfully.

Im not trying to float my own boat, but to all employers out there.....What Would You Pay???

Looking forward to all responses!

Old Sign Guy

 

[Gino]

You go first, so what are you getting ??

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

You go first, so what are you getting ??

I knew that'd be the first question But wanted this to be more of a discussion about wages, and what employers are willing to pay, and how they decide on someones wage.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

You sound like you own the place so, as an owner myself, I'll go first with about what I make. $6.50/hr.

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

You sound like you own the place so, as an owner myself, I'll go first with about what I make. $6.50/hr.

Hahaha! I work like I own the place, I care like I own the place, jobs keep me up at night like I own the place, but Im certainly not the owner. Being an owner is a different kind of crazy than being an installer

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Wages depend on what types of installs you do. Do you have a crane operators certificate? CDL? Are you installing 6-figure signs or little 4x8 ACM panels on Miss Big Booty Sassy's salon?

Install managers at large sign shops can make $35-$60/hr... all the way down to $15-$20 for low-level installers.

I'm guessing you're at a small shop if you are doing everything except designing. The types of signs you install and the amount of $$ you generate play a role in how much they can afford to pay you.

I had the stress of doing everything and running the shop. Now I do it for myself and get paid better.

 

[Gino]

I think tex has hit a few proverbial nails on the head.

You do sound like the owner and would probably be better at it than a boss who takes off for 1/2 a year at a time.

Your title of 'installer' is what threw me. You're basically wearing many hats. I would say it's time for you to have a face to face & heart to heart talk with this boss of yours and discuss things openly. If he starts defending it with things he cannot backup factually, I would be prepared to just say, then consider this my 2 week notice and don't take any counter offers. I hate it when someone bullies someone around and holds worthless information or terms over their head and when you finally say, that's enough...... nowwww, they wanna negotiate. Well, that time is over, so have a backup plan before you tell him off. Heck, make him an offer to buy him out and he can go on a permanent vacation.

 

[SightLine]

It also varies wildly by where you are located - cost of living, size of population, and a bund of other aspects all make a huge difference. There is no one size fits all wage. What an installer makes here where I live versus an installer with the same experience and responsibility in some other place could very well be a $10+ an hour difference.

Edit to add - odd.... just noticed my title is "New Member". Been here since 2010 with over 3000 posts. lol

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

Wages depend on what types of installs you do. Do you have a crane operators certificate? CDL? Are you installing 6-figure signs or little 4x8 ACM panels on Miss Big Booty Sassy's salon?

Install managers at large sign shops can make $35-$60/hr... all the way down to $15-$20 for low-level installers.

I'm guessing you're at a small shop if you are doing everything except designing. The types of signs you install and the amount of $$ you generate play a role in how much they can afford to pay you.

I had the stress of doing everything and running the shop. Now I do it for myself and get paid better.

Very true...We certainly fall in the "Miss Big Booty's" category! We certainly do not do any 6 figure large scale signs. I use a bucket truck or scaffolding for any kind of high installs, but mostly 4x8 ACM, backlits etc. I would say that would be 30 percent of the shops income. A large part of the shops income would come from ACM signs, coroplast, labels etc, and also Vehicle wraps, half wraps and graphics. And a small part would be CNC work which I paint and assemble.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Edit to add - odd.... just noticed my title is "New Member". Been here since 2010 with over 3000 posts. lol

There was a reset a while back. You can actually change it to whatever you want now.

 

[gnubler]

You sound like you own the place so, as an owner myself, I'll go first with about what I make. $6.50/hr.

Same here.

I use contractors for my installs and have an hourly rate depending on nature of the job. $30/hr for basic jobs on the ground, $40-50/hr for more complex jobs, ladder work, boom lift, etc.

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

It also varies wildly by where you are located - cost of living, size of population, and a bund of other aspects all make a huge difference. There is no one size fits all wage. What an installer makes here where I live versus an installer with the same experience and responsibility in some other place could very well be a $10+ an hour difference.

Edit to add - odd.... just noticed my title is "New Member". Been here since 2010 with over 3000 posts. lol

Thats very true. We are in a small community. There are only 3 other sign shops here on the coast, but we are by far the largest. To put cost of living in perspective, 51% of my monthly pay goes to my rent.

 

[Ctrl.Alt.Del]

I think tex has hit a few proverbial nails on the head.

You do sound like the owner and would probably be better at it than a boss who takes off for 1/2 a year at a time.

Your title of 'installer' is what threw me. You're basically wearing many hats. I would say it's time for you to have a face to face & heart to heart talk with this boss of yours and discuss things openly. If he starts defending it with things he cannot backup factually, I would be prepared to just say, then consider this my 2 week notice and don't take any counter offers. I hate it when someone bullies someone around and holds worthless information or terms over their head and when you finally say, that's enough...... nowwww, they wanna negotiate. Well, that time is over, so have a backup plan before you tell him off. Heck, make him an offer to buy him out and he can go on a permanent vacation.

That is some awesome advice, Gino. I've certainly thought about it! It does scare me because there is no other sign shop here that I could work at. Plus I am a single Dad of three kids, so I have to make sure there is always food in their bellies. It would be a lot different if it was just me.

 

[Gino]

I'm not sure how a single parent of 3 kids could/would be able to walk away, but you need to have all of your angles covered before something else might go wrong.

Being the owner here and having both good and lousy employees over the years, ya learn how to handle people, situations and things normally out of your control. The employees can always go home and punch out at 5, but being the owner, ya don't always have that luxury.

You say ya have a plotter at home, but do you have the space to set something up part-time with a possibility of full-time ?? Start looking for your own clientele. Don't..... as in NEVER approach any of your boss's customers, that's just plain wrong and unethical. Look for people who might need a truck or two lettered or a new sign out front.

How old are you kids ?? They must be teenagers or young adults. Reason being, if you're at this 30 years , you're most likely in your 50s, so while it's not a bad time to start over, they might hinder you in putting some extra hours into pounding the streets. However, they might be able to help dear old dad out with doing things in the business.

Think about all of yur avenues and soon stop taking your boss's bullsh!t.

 

[victor bogdanov]

How busy is the business? How much revenue are you producing per day for the business?

Id say if you are doing enough work to bill customers 1k per day Mon-Fri you should be getting 50k-75k per year (you doing most of the work)

 

[Gino]

How busy is the business? How much revenue are you producing per day for the business?

Id say if you are doing enough work to bill customers 1k per day Mon-Fri you should be getting 50k-75k per year (you doing most of the work)

How on earth do you figure that ??

If a company is billing out 265k a year by your calculations, paying him $65k a year and about $48k each for the other two designers..... that alone is over 1/2 of the companies gross. Now, add in all the overhead, vinyls, ink, vendors, substrates and all the other incidental costs. Now, don't forget about taxes. How much do you think is left ?? Ya hafta look at the whole picture. Take those silly horse blinders off.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Very true...We certainly fall in the "Miss Big Booty's" category! We certainly do not do any 6 figure large scale signs. I use a bucket truck or scaffolding for any kind of high installs, but mostly 4x8 ACM, backlits etc. I would say that would be 30 percent of the shops income. A large part of the shops income would come from ACM signs, coroplast, labels etc, and also Vehicle wraps, half wraps and graphics. And a small part would be CNC work which I paint and assemble.

Do you have a feel as to what your company's financials are? Is the company making $$ or barely skating by? He might not be able to afford to pay you more... or he might be a cheap ass hole.

You need to find your worth in the market place.. and that might be outside the trade.

After my employment ended at a sign shop I worked at, I started working in the IT field while building up my own sign business. That way I still had a steady income while going out on my own. I did it for a few years while practically being a single father of an infant. It's tough working 40 hours a week and then doing a side hustle after hours with the responsibility of kids... but it paid off and thankfully I don't have to worry about finances anymore.

 

[RabidOne]

The other thing no one has mentioned is where you are.
Are you in Sechelt or Courtenay where you can have competition from a larger neighboring community?
Or are you remote like Prince Rupert where competition from outside is rare?

 

[ikarasu]

If you're taking orders, dealing with clients, doing installs, CNC work, painting, operating all the printing equipment, doing all fabrication..you're not an installer.

I started in the same position, doing just digital printing... Now I bounce around and do everything above where / when needed, and my official position is manager. If they tried to call me an installer and pay me installer wages, I'd be gone!

I'm in Vancouver - so I'm sure it's a higher cost.of living... But it's dependant.


Our signmaker who does wraps and stuff occasionally is in the $27 range. The sign shop down the street has a guy who only does wraps, and he makes about $35 an hour.. and tried to poach our guy for the same, luckily our guy would rather die than wrap 8 hours a day.

Being a "manager" / jack of all trades, you should get more. If the owner is gone for 6 months and you're running the business, you're effectively a manager. Whether you're managing 1 employee or employees.

If he wants to be an absentee owner and put all the responsibility on your shoulders... Demand more money. If he refuses and he's paying you the same wages you can get elsewhere for half the amount of work, apply and walk away.

Check indeed and Craigslist, look for sign installers, or wide format operators - most pay range in our area is $20-30 an hour.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

How on earth do you figure that ??

If a company is billing out 265k a year by your calculations, paying him $65k a year and about $48k each for the other two designers..... that alone is over 1/2 of the companies gross. Now, add in all the overhead, vinyls, ink, vendors, substrates and all the other incidental costs. Now, don't forget about taxes. How much do you think is left ?? Ya hafta look at the whole picture. Take those silly horse blinders off.

In a 2 person show, the owner is working himself like a rented mule to make up the difference. After headcount grows a little, his number seems to pencil out.
When I first started, I hired a guy and I kept working a full time job during the day then would work the business nights/weekends. I would use my paycheck to cover his. It wasn't the most enjoyable thing that I ever did but it worked out.