Which Vinyl Cutter to Buy? Summa S3T160 / Graphtec / HP 64" Cutting Solution

[BecW]

Hi, we are looking at new vinyl cutters at work. Considering the ones in the title. Right now it's between the HP and the summa. The summa is about $10,000 more. Obviously it has true tangential technology VS only drag knife and the HP has tangential emulation only. Upon looking at videos the Summa does seem to be of much higher build quality. But I'm looking for people's opinions on their experience with these machines.

I know a summa will fit seamlessly into our current workflow as we use a very old summa d160r. It's on its way out and having major issues hence the upgrade. FYI We use our vinyl cutter every day. It needs to stand the test of time.

I work at Signarama. So lots of large format printing and cutting for a wide variety of jobs from signboards to stickers to decals to vehicle wraps. You name it everything. Including 3D signs where we need to draw on the pounce paper as a template for installation.

Tangential would be a nice upgrade. But I don't think our current d160R had tangetnial technology, and we've gotten by with running just drag technology for 12 years.

I should also mention the printer we use is a HP Latex 365 with ONYX RIP. So I believe HP vinyl cutter would fit here. However may have a learning curve and change our process, so less seamless for a busy already operating business.

What I'm really looking is;

• Reliability and trust in the machine (parts not breaking often, cutting accuracy)
• Ease of use
• Future proofing. This is a long-term investment.
• Efficiency in the workflow.
• OPOS reading accurately over long runs. Vehicle wraps can have runs anywhere from 3 to 6 metres long at a time. On the cheaper HP I have a feeling there may be issues with long runs like this and we do a lot of them so I'd like to have that reliability. Has anyone used the HP and can tell me if they've had these problems? I did read it somewhere very briefly and it was giving somebody trouble. What sensor does it use? Is it worse or better than OPOS cam?

Please share your experiences with these machines and comparisons if you have any information. It will help us make an informed choice.

Thank you!

 

[balstestrat]

That HP cutter is Summa S One. There's almost no difference at all, same factory, same model just tiny firmware differences.
Unless you get the HP branded one a lot cheaper you might as well get Summa. It's basically the same as your D160 with new design.

But if you want an upgrade, get the S3 tangential one (and I really recommend with the camera, now that's an upgrade!). If you just need a new one, get S One.
Now is it worth 10k (you can 2nd S one for that price) only you can decide. But it is more of a tank inside, not just the head is different.

 

[cornholio]

I can second what balstestrad said.
The camera version of the S3 is cool and extremely fast in marks recognition.
But I only see an advantage if you do a lot of sheet cutting. (Like screen printed sheets or prints out of a digital printer like a HP Indigo).
The S One or HP Plus are nice cutters as well.

 

[Jessy_1]

Hi, we are looking at new vinyl cutters at work. Considering the ones in the title. Right now it's between the HP and the summa. The summa is about $10,000 more. Obviously it has true tangential technology VS only drag knife and the HP has tangential emulation only. Upon looking at videos the Summa does seem to be of much higher build quality. But I'm looking for people's opinions on their experience with these machines.

I know a summa will fit seamlessly into our current workflow as we use a very old summa d160r. It's on its way out and having major issues hence the upgrade. FYI We use our vinyl cutter every day. It needs to stand the test of time.

I work at Signarama. So lots of large format printing and cutting for a wide variety of jobs from signboards to stickers to decals to vehicle wraps. You name it everything. Including 3D signs where we need to draw on the pounce paper as a template for installation.

Tangential would be a nice upgrade. But I don't think our current d160R had tangetnial technology, and we've gotten by with running just drag technology for 12 years.

I should also mention the printer we use is a HP Latex 365 with ONYX RIP. So I believe HP vinyl cutter would fit here. However may have a learning curve and change our process, so less seamless for a busy already operating business.

What I'm really looking is;

• Reliability and trust in the machine (parts not breaking often, cutting accuracy)
• Ease of use
• Future proofing. This is a long-term investment.
• Efficiency in the workflow.
• OPOS reading accurately over long runs. Vehicle wraps can have runs anywhere from 3 to 6 metres long at a time. On the cheaper HP I have a feeling there may be issues with long runs like this and we do a lot of them so I'd like to have that reliability. Has anyone used the HP and can tell me if they've had these problems? I did read it somewhere very briefly and it was giving somebody trouble. What sensor does it use? Is it worse or better than OPOS cam?

Please share your experiences with these machines and comparisons if you have any information. It will help us make an informed choice.

Thank you!

We use the Graphtec 9000 and I LOVE IT.

Pros:
- Will work with ONYX RIP and their opos system.
- Has a setting called Line Segmentation. This means when it goes to cut a printed file it will only scan the first 4 marks and then plot everything within that square, then once its done that section it will advance to the next 4 and so on. This is really good when you print a long cut file because it minimizes skewing. It's smart enough that it will fix itself when it does start to skew. This is by far my favorite feature. We do a lot of Vehicle wraps and stickers and I very rarely have a problem with skewing because of this feature.
- Has the plug in for Illustrator to add opos marks.
- Has 2 positions the blade can be in. Position 1 is on the cutting strip for normal kiss cut Plotting. Position 2 put the blades in a gap next to the cutting strip. Position 2 is used for perf cut. This is nice because you can perf cut without ruining your cutting strip.
- can do layered cutting. It will kiss cut the stickers out and then will go back to position 1, make you switch the positions and the proceed to perf cut the stickers.
- Not sure if this is a product you use. But it cuts Tint super well. Tint is notorious for being hard to cut (from my experience) and I haven't had a single problem cutting it with this machine.

Cons:
-you have to set the blade depth with every run, which can be very annoying
- I've noticed I go through blades fast. I'm not sure if it's a user issue or if I should look into getting a different degree blade.
- if you want to switch from a 60° to a 45° blade you have to get a whole new housing unit. It comes with the 60° blade. (I think this is why I'm going through blades because most of the stuff I cut isn't supposed to be cut with a 60° blade.)


I used to operate an HP 54" Basic cutter and a Summa S Class. And out of all 3 plotters the Graphtec blows the other 2 plotters out of the water. I highly recommend it.

 

[tulsagraphics]

We use the Graphtec 9000 and I LOVE IT.

Pros:
- Will work with ONYX RIP and their opos system.
- Has a setting called Line Segmentation. This means when it goes to cut a printed file it will only scan the first 4 marks and then plot everything within that square, then once its done that section it will advance to the next 4 and so on. This is really good when you print a long cut file because it minimizes skewing. It's smart enough that it will fix itself when it does start to skew. This is by far my favorite feature. We do a lot of Vehicle wraps and stickers and I very rarely have a problem with skewing because of this feature.
- Has the plug in for Illustrator to add opos marks.
- Has 2 positions the blade can be in. Position 1 is on the cutting strip for normal kiss cut Plotting. Position 2 put the blades in a gap next to the cutting strip. Position 2 is used for perf cut. This is nice because you can perf cut without ruining your cutting strip.
- can do layered cutting. It will kiss cut the stickers out and then will go back to position 1, make you switch the positions and the proceed to perf cut the stickers.
- Not sure if this is a product you use. But it cuts Tint super well. Tint is notorious for being hard to cut (from my experience) and I haven't had a single problem cutting it with this machine.

Cons:
-you have to set the blade depth with every run, which can be very annoying
- I've noticed I go through blades fast. I'm not sure if it's a user issue or if I should look into getting a different degree blade.
- if you want to switch from a 60° to a 45° blade you have to get a whole new housing unit. It comes with the 60° blade. (I think this is why I'm going through blades because most of the stuff I cut isn't supposed to be cut with a 60° blade.)


I used to operate an HP 54" Basic cutter and a Summa S Class. And out of all 3 plotters the Graphtec blows the other 2 plotters out of the water. I highly recommend it.

Summa does all that too. It doesn't require a secondary blade holder since you can adjust blade settings in the software for the kiss + die cut in a single operation.

That being said -- I do wish the Summa had a secondary blade position for "flex cuts" (die cuts) so I wouldn't have to worry about fine tuning the blade depth to better protect the cutting strip. I'm careful to double-check the calibration anyway, but when I look at the big picture -- I purchased my S2T160 back in 2013 and I've only replaced the cutting strip once.

The "cons" mentioned aren't really issues -- they're part of normal operation / consumable usage for any plotter. Paper backings or very dense materials will eat up blades pretty quickly. Summa doesn't require a separate "housing unit" for a secondary blade. You simply unscrew the "pen style" blade holder, swap "pens" or "blades" and screw it back in.

I've owned multiple Graphtecs (15+ years ago -- and I was happy with them). I keep my older Graphtec around as a backup, but my Summa has never let me down. I can drop a 50 yard roll of vinyl on it and have no worries it will complete the job as needed. I switched to Summa because I wanted top quality and features they had at that time (barcode scanning, true tangential cutting, take up reel, etc).

This isn't an endorsement for one brand over the other -- a lot of it comes down to budget -- but as most Summa owner will tell you, if they had to buy again, they would buy a Summa. They're the bees knees. I would have no problem owning either brand these days, but since my S2 has been so reliable (and I can afford it), it's Summa all the way.

 

[FireSprint.com]

We really like our graphtecs.

Can’t go wrong with either if you like the software that runs them.

 

[jcskikus]

As most have said, "you can't go wrong with either", it's true. Summa or Graphtec, you're getting a strong workhorse piece of equipment. That said, I'd stay away from the HP. As someone said that it is a Summa, but with HP's hand in it for the firmware. Buy the Summa as the cost difference will be worth the ease of mind. I have a 64 Latex cutter, and it's still with the repair shop. Whatever went haywire with it is somewhere in the what HP changed out to make it their own. My S One D160 has been nothing but spectacular.
I have used 7000, 8000, and 9000 series Graphtecs, ad never had a problem with them. You may have to switch out the blade from cutting regular vinyl and reflective, but they are great to work with.

Good luck in your choice.

 

[Jean Shimp]

We bought a new Graphtec FC9000 about 3 years ago. It has problems. I am glad I kept my old FC4100 as it still runs flawlessly even though it is probably pushing 30 years old. We bought the new one thinking we would need it as a replacement for the aging one, but the new one doesn't cut at the same depth along the length of the carriage. We haven't had time to fix it.