3M 8508 Laminate Shrinking... Tired of the Manufacturer Blaming us

[MikePro]

in 3M's defense, its not completely on them... this is entirely the fault of your sales rep. getting hung-up on literature telling him to sell this material as a "cast product" even though their warranty clearly shows evidence of their knowledge that, given the similarities in performance to calendared products, this material will NOT withstand the conditions of your region.

kudos to 3M for reaching out to you, but your supplier is really the one to blame here.

 

[-Fusion]

What ever happen? Did 3M figure out the issue?

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

Yeah they did.. it's not their fault, it's everyone who is dealing with this issues fault. We have been told literally 12 different reasons for it and none of it is 3Ms fault.

When I finally brought up that we experienced the issue with 8518 and 8512, they slipped and said it's the same adhesive. We are at a stalemate with them and are looking at other courses of action, they just can't comprehend that this doesn't happen with their competitors products.

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

in 3M's defense, its not completely on them... this is entirely the fault of your sales rep. getting hung-up on literature telling him to sell this material as a "cast product" even though their warranty clearly shows evidence of their knowledge that, given the similarities in performance to calendared products, this material will NOT withstand the conditions of your region.

kudos to 3M for reaching out to you, but your supplier is really the one to blame here.

Yeah the 3M sales rep, who spent the better part of a year trying to convert us.

 

[Patentagosse]

'Had shrinking issues (major) with Avery few years ago. 'Took like 8 months but I finally received a full credit for the price of client's invoice but as they gave it to my distibutor, I have had the choice to buy 3M material instead of Avery... they never knew that.

'Had in printing issue (fish eyes everywhere) on a roll of 30" Oracal 5600 reflective. They replaced it and the new roll performed exactly as the defective one. They sent me 2 full rolls of 3551GRA 54" to apologise and suggested to buy another brand of reflective from my supplier byt the time they found out what was the problem with this batch. 'Had another problem with their 3751GRA as it hit the market. 'Got great support again from our Canadian representative Kevin Crawford (Oracal). Never had a problem with cast material from Oracal (3951) or 3M (IJ180) since I started printing with my Roland in 2004. However, I don't like working with 3M laminates so whatever the vinyl I use, they are always laminated with Oracal 210G or 290G.

I don't like gambling so OraGuard (Oracal) is the way to go here at my shop. I use a lot of 3M in my colored cast films for computer-cut letters & graphics, also lots of Oracal and some KPMF and Avery for specific colors.

Nothing's perfect, **** may happen but it's the way a manufacturer back-up their lines of products when problems arise that set 'em apart, or not. Usually your supplier's sale rep is supposed to step-up at the plate for you and find a solution.

 

[ironchef]

So are you still using 8508/35c? What are you using now? 3m never made you whole?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[Christian @ Visual Graphx]

We do not use either. The gloss lam we use is 3M 8048 nonpvc. It seems to be leagues ahead of the 8508 nightmare.

No 3M never made it right and it took us a few years to trust their products again.

 

[krosbonez]

I know this is an old post, but just curious about what people are using now? I work for a university sign shop and when I got here they only used IJ35c and 8509. There were always problems, delamination, shrinkage, adhesion issues... to name a few. We were told the IJ35 was a cheep vinyl that should only be used for very short term signs. We changed to 40c and got a little better results as far as adhesion, but still had the delamination and shrinkage issues. So we changed the lam to 8519 and all seems well accept the cost now has more than doubled compared to what we were using.
I have always been told to not mix brands (3m vinyl/oracal lam). Has anyone else mixed with positive results? I have always preferred Oracal of 3M, but have not had the option to change here until now.

 

[BigfishDM]

I know this is an old post, but just curious about what people are using now? I work for a university sign shop and when I got here they only used IJ35c and 8509. There were always problems, delamination, shrinkage, adhesion issues... to name a few. We were told the IJ35 was a cheep vinyl that should only be used for very short term signs. We changed to 40c and got a little better results as far as adhesion, but still had the delamination and shrinkage issues. So we changed the lam to 8519 and all seems well accept the cost now has more than doubled compared to what we were using.
I have always been told to not mix brands (3m vinyl/oracal lam). Has anyone else mixed with positive results? I have always preferred Oracal of 3M, but have not had the option to change here until now.

Mixing brands is fine as long as you put CAST on CAST or CAST onto CALENDARED.

 

[MikePro]

Mixing brands is fine as long as you put CAST on CAST or CAST onto CALENDARED.

+1
calendared vinyl shrinks, just the nature of the beast. Besides, if you use economy materials then expect to produce economy products.
however, I've had ZERO issue with edge curl when using 8508/8509 on ij35. I've got dozens of "economy" MDO/coroplast signs out there with this product that have lasted summer/winter cycles and still only have maybe ~1/16" shrinkage from the edges of the panel.

dial-down the tension on your lamination web, be cautious of your ink saturation during print, allow your prints to fully dry/outgas prior to lamination, don't stretch the vinyl during application, and post-heat your application if you feel you would like to give your product some "extra love" on the back-end for additional longevity.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

IJ35 has some pretty bad reviews on Grimcos site. Apparently its made in China now. Try Oracal 215 laminate, we havent had good luck with it.
IJ40 is decent but it smells too much compared to the alternatives.