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3M MCS Certified Printer Suggestions

jfiscus

Rap Master
We are looking to upgrade to a 3M MCS Certified Printer (see list at http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1226481O/brochure-mcs-quality-printers-overview.pdf ) and I would like the opinions of everyone else on here. I have experience with a lot of the different printer manufacturers older models, but some of these new models are fresh off the line and I don't know much about them. Is anyone here running them, what do you think of them, and which one would you suggest we look into adding to our shop?

We are primarily a vehicle wrap business, but we also do some signage/walls/etc. We run Onyx for our RIPs.
 

Starter

New Member
I just received our 3M MCS certification 3 weeks ago. I purchased an Epson Surecolor S60600 about 2 months ago and love it. Very fast and great quality graphics for the price. The ink fumes can be a little overwhelming at times but nothing a print shop couldn't cope with.
I believe here are 3 printers in this series....S40600, S60600 and the S80600 and they come with Onyx
 

Starter

New Member
We have an air exchanger to cope with the fumes. It is by no means unbearable....only when we are laying down large runs of darker colors. My office connected to the print room which doesn't help....I seem to be the only one that notices the fumes.
 

AKwrapguy

New Member
We're rocking two 570's and they're awesome. The bulk inks system helps out a lot and brings down the cost of printing.
 

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
S80600 vote here. Had ours for ~3 months. Fastest machine we've ever had and gamut is mind blowing.
S60600 is twice as fast with dual CMYK.
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
We are a bit leery of the 60600 (but it is still my current first choice) due to some color fading issues with previous models.
 

a77

New Member
We are a bit leery of the 60600 (but it is still my current first choice) due to some color fading issues with previous models.
Were the color fading issues with cmyk or the extra inks that the s70 had (I think it might have been orange that was the culprit)?
I have signs out there with an s30, 5 years, no signs of fading at all. But I did hear about a local shop that did wraps with the s70 and ran into issues.
 

printhog

New Member
I'm a former 3M Scotchprint owner, and a big fan of the companies media, but the MCS warranty deserves a closer look. 3M has such high standards in their production lines that very few if any media defects get to the end use. Look at what you are getting and why, and whether its that important to your client or your market penetration. When I started with wraps no one thought they could last outdoors for years, so a warranty was needed to convince the customer to invest thousands in a wrap. Now people expect the wrap to last at least 5 years.

The greatest preponderance of warranty claims for graphics failures I've seen over the years were not media related. Usually the claims are denied for fabrication or installer mistakes, bad prep, bad surface, improper media matrix, or just incomplete record keeping - in other words - human error. MCS doesnt cover that. MCS doesn't cover removal and replacement labor, just media. And MCS also is a prorated warranty period.

Because 3M's production science is so good on its premium films, chances are great that if you have a failure, it will not be media related, and as such it will be on you to honor, not the vinyl manufacturer. That's not to say you shouldnt do a deal. But you'll need to follow the 3M technical bulletins to the letter, file the paperwork and keep records of compliance (ink lots, vinyl lots, suppliers, invoices, install forms with weather and surface conditions, etc.) for each job, and keep all that for years. As well as sharing your client base with 3M when they register the warranty. yikes! I needed a staffer who did just that one job for a shop of 8 people. And that costs more than the printer.

Which brings me to the market value - when your competitors don't offer 3M MCS you become the premium shop, and its worth it for a bit. But you are not going to be price competitive to the cheapo wrap guy down the street, so your cost for non MCS products (banners, tradeshows etc.) will go up - in some cases 3x.

When the competition sees you marketing that 3M affiliation heavily (to truly benefit from it), they may become 3M MCS as well, and a price war can ensue. While I cant speak for recently, in the old days 3M reps were known to SHARE that customer info between shops. Those MCS warranted customers were treated as 3M property, not yours.

I like 3M, and the labor savings and primo quality films are by far the best IMHO, but I cover my warranty internally. I follow the tech bulletins, meet output standards that are at the top of the trade, but I don't share my client info with any suppliers.

Buy the printer that makes FINANCIAL sense to you, but dont let fear of failures from a mature and proven product line weigh heavy - you're better off spending that extra overhead on training staff to be the best than on keeping copious records to support a warranty claim that will likely never come..
 

BigfishDM

Merchant Member
Do you have a source for this?
I have conflicting information on my MCS Warranty data sheet.

New warranties and components for the 3M MCS Warranty

HP and 3M MCS offer a 6 year warranty, what is it with the Epsons?

We are excited to announce an increased length of 3M warranty for the HP & 3M™ 891 Latex Ink, along with the other 3M™ MCS™ Warranty components: HP 831, HP 871, and HP 881 inks.
3M are able to do this because of 3M’s industry leading natural outdoor weathering tests, which resulted in allowing 3M to extend the warranties to the longest they currently offer. This extension are great news for the fleet and illuminated signage segments, as allows the HP Latex digital printed option to now be warranted the same length as 3M’s outdoor translucent films.
 

BigfishDM

Merchant Member
Here is some more great info on the MCS warranty and HP Latex.
 

Attachments

  • 3M MCS Warranty with HP Latex Inks_July2016.pdf
    1.8 MB · Views: 476

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
Thanks Bigfish.
3M's documentation needs a bit of clarification then, because the bulletin we have here was released after the one you have provided (September) and doesn't mention what the HP documents show.
I finally found the relevant information after a bit of searching and corroborated your claim on the 3M website, so thank you.
The standard MCS warranty brochure was showing latex to have 1 year less warranty on certain laminates which is why I queried it.
 
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