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ADA Question.................................

gnemmas

New Member
Ha, ha, that's a good one.

Accessible is wheelchair accessible. Which an "wheelchair" symbol is indicated. For restroom facilities, a bunch of other requirements need to be satisfied.

Raised text & Braille are for visually impaired persons, who may not be wheelchair bound. Simply need to know that this is male or female restroom . And this restroom may not be "accessible" by wheelchair.

For blind and on wheelchair, well, we need all of them.

The new one is the accessible modification for the gas stations. some pumps, the credit card processing unit is lowered for "accessible" purpose.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
:ROFLMAO: I find the list itself as being negative or slightly derogatory.

I thank you for the list, don't get me wrong, but I just hafta say this.........

They now have frickin' lists of words I shouldn't use so I don't hurt someone's feelings ?? You can't call a blind person blind ??

Then they go on to say the word might be offensive, but also the replacement word might be more derogatory. I mean what.... you're just supposed to look the other way when you see an obviously mangled or challenged person and not recognize the fact, they have something wrong with them. Hey you..... the guy holding a cane and tap dancing with it..... you're gonna get hit in a minu........ oops..... too late, cause I hadda choose my words carefully.

Aren't we all getting off track with not hurting peoples' feelings ?? I mean, I get on peoples' sh!t here, but when you substitute words, the same thought pattern is still there, so aren't you still thinking the same thing ?? Ahh.... you there, the guy with the lacerations, blood coming out of your ears and mouth, the one who can't see through the blood lying in the street under the automobile which hit your misaligned leg from an earlier accident and is now just a prosthetic...... do you want me to call for someone to help you ?? Cripes, til I get that all out, he'll be dead, because I couldn't hurt his feelings. How is saying deaf mute wrong if you say it behind their back ??

Sorry, but this world is going backwards with this stuff..... and it ain't the politics.



So...... howda like them apples..... I:thread my own thread. Has anyone ever done that before.... besides me ?? :smile:
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
:ROFLMAO: I find the list itself as being negative or slightly derogatory.

I thank you for the list, don't get me wrong, but I just hafta say this.........

They now have frickin' lists of words I shouldn't use so I don't hurt someone's feelings ?? You can't call a blind person blind ??

Then they go on to say the word might be offensive, but also the replacement word might be more derogatory. I mean what.... you're just supposed to look the other way when you see an obviously mangled or challenged person and not recognize the fact, they have something wrong with them. Hey you..... the guy holding a cane and tap dancing with it..... you're gonna get hit in a minu........ oops..... too late, cause I hadda choose my words carefully.

Aren't we all getting off track with not hurting peoples' feelings ?? I mean, I get on peoples' sh!t here, but when you substitute words, the same thought pattern is still there, so aren't you still thinking the same thing ?? Ahh.... you there, the guy with the lacerations, blood coming out of your ears and mouth, the one who can't see through the blood lying in the street under the automobile which hit your misaligned leg from an earlier accident and is now just a prosthetic...... do you want me to call for someone to help you ?? Cripes, til I get that all out, he'll be dead, because I couldn't hurt his feelings. How is saying deaf mute wrong if you say it behind their back ??

Sorry, but this world is going backwards with this stuff..... and it ain't the politics.



So...... howda like them apples..... I:thread my own thread. Has anyone ever done that before.... besides me ?? :smile:

I actually get money to know this stuff. I thought that might get someone worked up... this might help... :bushmill: + :corndog:
 

Marlene

New Member
We have a somewhat new customer who has gotten a bunch of signs lately. She just paid her bill for some last week and now she's requesting some more signs. However, I'm not sure of the approach to them.

She wants a total of 3 Rest Room signs, which I know must be ADA w/braille, but these are to be signs alerting people as to wherethey are in the building, such as "[FONT=arial, sans-serif]additional restroom located on third floor[/FONT][FONT=arial, sans-serif]" and "[/FONT]ADA handicapped accessible restroom located on the second floor. So, I'm not sure if these need to be braille or not, since they are not near the bathrooms themselves. Do you think these need braille or not ??




:thankyou: Gino


seems like the written message is for the very people who use the ADA type signs to get around so it seems logical to make sure they can read them. they put Braille on drive up ATMs so to be safe, I'd make sure all the signs had it.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
seems like the written message is for the very people who use the ADA type signs to get around so it seems logical to make sure they can read them. they put Braille on drive up ATMs so to be safe, I'd make sure all the signs had it.


Are you serious ??


:covereyes: A blind or eye challenged person [thank you Rick] is allowed to drive a car, but not see, so they need special signs, just for them ?? :ROFLMAO: I wonder if they use a rear view mirror ?? Heck, I wonder if they look both ways before pulling out ?? Instead of 'Baby On Board, it says... Blind People Driving On Board.
 

Rick

Certified Enneadecagon Designer
I don't know what logic and ADA have anything to do with each other, most blind people can't read Grade 2 braille anyway. Adding braille and tactile to that sign will add an un-needed cost. It's not required in any code (well, maybe New York) One thing I deal with all over the country is over-compliance. There are specifications for each sign type so it leaves no interpretation. I point these signs out and say, "you paid too much for that sign" you multiply that cost on a thousand properties, it adds up. I believe these large companies should cover their arse, but at some point, all they have to do is make sure they comply with the code.

Probably as has been pointed out, blind people would not be able to find the sign as the sign would not be placed in an area they are used to. Another thing is, a blind person can use any restroom, it's only the blind person in a wheel chair who requires an accessible restroom... I'm sure at some point, they would have some an able-bodied assistant to help locate the correct room.

ATM's are required by code to have braille and tactile, it's not for convenience (well, maybe a little), it's the law... one slightly unknown fact, ATM signs are probably the most read of braille signs. A blind person will call a taxi and have them pull up to a drive-thru ATM. It's safer to have someone with you.
 

wgsengraving

New Member
seems like the written message is for the very people who use the ADA type signs to get around so it seems logical to make sure they can read them. they put Braille on drive up ATMs so to be safe, I'd make sure all the signs had it.

I believe I said that in an earlier post. I think a lot of people have a hard time interpreting the law, so they go overboard. It's being safe.
 

Gino

Premium Subscriber
:doh: So, I wrote her an e-mail explaining all the things I found out and outlined her choices. Gave her some prices going both ways and now she says.......

I think I will think about it for a while and get back to you. It is not super urgent. My new tenants just moved in yesterday so I am trying to get everyone settled in now. Thank you.

:banghead: When will I ever learn ??


The best thing that came out of this are all the words I can no longer use, unless I want to be callous........ me?? callous ?? :rolleyes:






Thank you all for your help and comments. You've helped not only me but I'm sure many others down the road. :rock-n-roll:
 

Marlene

New Member
Are you serious ??


:covereyes: A blind or eye challenged person [thank you Rick] is allowed to drive a car, but not see, so they need special signs, just for them ?? :ROFLMAO: I wonder if they use a rear view mirror ?? Heck, I wonder if they look both ways before pulling out ?? Instead of 'Baby On Board, it says... Blind People Driving On Board.

it may be because the maker of the ATM machines have no clue if it will be installed in a drive up or walk up that it has Braille but wehn they put a new machine in my bank's drive up, I did a double take when I saw it.
 

Moze

Precision Sign Services
The drive-up ATM's have braille because a large number of visually impaired people are driven places by others (taxis, friends, family, etc.).
 

gnubler

New Member
Serious. My drive up ATM here has braille on it...it's on the driver side.

I'm quoting some stairwell ADA signs, see attached mockup. Got a quote from Howard with braille included, though it's not specified on the mockup Howard said it's required. Customer says it isn't. How do I find out, local fire marshall?

image (1).png
 

Moze

Precision Sign Services
Serious. My drive up ATM here has braille on it...it's on the driver side.

I'm quoting some stairwell ADA signs, see attached mockup. Got a quote from Howard with braille included, though it's not specified on the mockup Howard said it's required. Customer says it isn't. How do I find out, local fire marshall?

View attachment 163629

If you're going to sell and/or install ADA signs and aren't using a consultant, etc., you need to familiarize yourself with the ADA, IBC and IFC requirements related to each specific sign type.The answer(s) are probably much more in depth than you're thinking. Stairway ID signs need to be installed at a specific height. They don't follow standard ADA Room ID sign specs. Buildings with a certain number of floors, etc. will require photoluminescent stair signs. It's going to suck if you get these manufactured and installed and the Fire Marshall tells you to take them down and try again.
 

gnubler

New Member
I've read up on a bit but didn't want to get too deep unless it looked like it might become an order. I won't be doing the install, the customer is the contractor on a new building and just wants the signs. They supplied that spec layout and said this about braille:
We spoke with the fire Marshall on this. I believe its zoned R2 and does not require braille as this is not a hotel.

I'll get some more clarification from my rep at Howard tomorrow so I have something to tell the customer.
 

Moze

Precision Sign Services
Whether it's a hotel or not has nothing to do with requiring Braille. The Contractor will need code-compliant signs for his TCO and CO.
 

signbrad

New Member
ADA guidelines do exist for non-tactile signs. They are just different. For example, a two-inch minimum letter height is required if a directional sign is to conform (it was 3-inch minimum prior to 2012). But skinny-stroked letters are not required on directionals like they are on tactile signs, where the stroke cannot exceed 10% of the letter height, making all bold strokes, and many medium-stroked letters non-compliant. All upper case is not required on directionals, either.

Having a tactile directional in the middle of a long wall seems silly. But some insist on it.

Letter height above finished floor for tactile signage is now a range from 48" to 60", measured from the top and bottom lines of tactile copy. But many architects still say 60" to vertical center of the sign. We just do what the architects say.

A requirement that many are not aware of, and few follow, is the minimum letter spacing of 1/8-inch. In other words, mechanical spacing instead of visual spacing. 1/8-inch minimum letter spacing on 5/8-inch letters looks really bad. In 20 years we have had only one architect insist on it. The result? It looked really bad.

I suppose that the wording, "ADA accessible" is like saying "ATM machine."

I was once instructed to change a sign reading, "Handicap Unloading," to "Handicap Alighting." The official said, "they're not cattle." I said, "Alighting? But doesn't that mean they'll be set on fire?" He didn't laugh. I guess sometimes juvenile humor is out of place.

Brad in Kansas City
 

Johnny Best

Active Member
Well this post is 8 years old. That handicap person is probably still probably looking for the bathroom, I mean accessible facility.
 

gnubler

New Member
Unlike some members who clutter the forum with 48,000 posts. Tryin' to be conservative here!

Anyway, there was some good info in the older posts and also in the new replies. Job has been quoted so we'll see what happens.
 
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