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Advice

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gplough

New Member
I printed and installed and a 120'x8' wall mural (several sections) for a customer. The customer is refusing to pay because the job isn't to their standards. There were 20 or so small (2" ish) creases which I worked, heated and smoothed out but still there (Attached is an example of what I'm talking about). Also there were some slight (<1" near the ceiling) leveling issues which in my opinion were due to a drop ceiling, which I provided a solution to.

They are wanting the project redone. I told them they would need to find another vendor.

My question is, do I have the right to go back and remove the current mural (which apparently is good enough until they get someone lined up to redo it) or do I just need to chill out, take my lumps and move on?

Thanks!
Greg
 

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CanuckSigns

Active Member
That's a tough one for sure, on one hand I can see their point, the creases shouldn't be there, it's an installer error for sure, however having to remove, reprint and reinstall that much vinyl over a fairly small issue would leave a bad taste in my mouth.

To answer your question, no you do not have the right to remove the mural, it is installed inside their building, if you go in you would be tresspassing, and if you damage the wall in any way removing it, you open yourself up to damage lawsuits.

If you have already told them to find someone else, I think you are going to have to walk away and eat your losses on this one, it sucks but we've all had to do it at some point.

Looking at the photo you posted, it looks like the graphic is broken up into smaller sections, how many of those smaller sections would need to be replaced? it might be worth swallowing your pride, replacing them till they are happy, collect your cheque and move on.
 
Inks

Inks

New Member
Some good points made by Canuck signs. Let them get a quote to replace it and I suspect there will be a fee to remove your installation. They may just decide to keep it. If as Canuck says it is only a few panels it may be best to replace those.
 
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gplough

New Member
CanuckSigns said:
That's a tough one for sure, on one hand I can see their point, the creases shouldn't be there, it's an installer error for sure, however having to remove, reprint and reinstall that much vinyl over a fairly small issue would leave a bad taste in my mouth.

To answer your question, no you do not have the right to remove the mural, it is installed inside their building, if you go in you would be tresspassing, and if you damage the wall in any way removing it, you open yourself up to damage lawsuits.

If you have already told them to find someone else, I think you are going to have to walk away and eat your losses on this one, it sucks but we've all had to do it at some point.

Looking at the photo you posted, it looks like the graphic is broken up into smaller sections, how many of those smaller sections would need to be replaced? it might be worth swallowing your pride, replacing them till they are happy, collect your cheque and move on.
Click to expand...

I'm just going to take the loss and move on to the next one... I could reprint/reinstall panels but honestly I don't believe that this customer will ever be happy. What do I do if my installation is still up several months from now?
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
Sounds petty, but 20 mistakes is a lot..... especially if they can touch them and see them without getting on a ladder. A job like this shoulda been produced with a flatbed, not printing vinyl, laminating, then applying them.

And a big fat NO, once installed, they belong to the person who owns the walls. Just because you can't get paid does not trump vandalism. One has nothing to do with the other.
 
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gplough

New Member
Gino said:
Sounds petty, but 20 mistakes is a lot..... especially if they can touch them and see them without getting on a ladder. A job like this shoulda been produced with a flatbed, not printing vinyl, laminating, then applying them.

And a big fat NO, once installed, they belong to the person who owns the walls. Just because you can't get paid does not trump vandalism. One has nothing to do with the other.
Click to expand...

For the most part, you would have to be specifically looking for problems in order to catch the mistakes. I'm not downplaying them... I know they're still mistakes and I've owned em. I agree that some sort of rigid substrate would have been far better than what I attempted. Just an expensive lesson...
 
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ChaseO

Premium Subscriber
If they are going to keep them, I'd be working some sort of discount so you aren't eating the whole job. If they are going to get them redone (since you told them to find someone else) then cut your losses and move on. No, you can't pull them off as it is their property paid or not. The drop ceiling issue shouldn't have been an issue, I would have planned for this with bleed and trimmed, but I would have "fixed it" with another strip to serve as a border.
 
Moze

Moze

Precision Sign Services
There should have been a few inches of bleed at the top of the graphics to compensate for any variations in the drop ceiling. Same with the floor, although with the wall base, you were probably fine and didn't have any issues.

Unfortunately, the customer has the right to expect a wrinkle-free install. Why? Because it can be done. Since it's an install issue, that unfortunately makes it your issue, not the customer's issue (as you've already stated). If they're not going to pay, you can either tell them to enjoy their free graphics or you can remove and replace just the damaged panels (hopefully) or the entire thing. Either way, you risk peeling paint when removing which may then be visible after the new graphics are installed. And if you had 20 mistakes your first go-round, you're pretty much guaranteed to have close to the same in the next go-round.

Maybe switch to a material that installs easier if you decide to remove and replace.
 
petepaz

petepaz

New Member
based on the wrinkle you show in the pic i would say that's not acceptable for what it is but why couldn't you just patch the 20 or so small areas or at least the ones that look as the o ne you showed us.
on the rare occasion i have had something like that happen i have been able to just replace a small section or put a patch on that you don't even notice.
in the pic you show if you just printed that light red area with the wrinkle and either went over the top or cut it out and replaced it i bet wouldn't even be noticed but it would give your customer a quick and easy fix. is it perfect no but it should resolve the issue and would look better than that wrinkle
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
You can analyze this and put whatever spin on it til your totally drained, but the end result is..... you have over 20 mistakes. As mentioned, they have a right to inspect it. This probably cost several thousands of dollars, if not more. This is very closeup artwork. It's not really meant to be seen from a few hundred feet or even 50' away. Many people are gonna eventually see these mistakes and you're gonna be run outta town. Instead of getting upset and telling them to go elsewhere, I'd be looking for ways to fix it to their liking. Then, you'll be a cherished. workable vendor for them and will most likely lead to more work.
 
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gplough

New Member
petepaz said:
based on the wrinkle you show in the pic i would say that's not acceptable for what it is but why couldn't you just patch the 20 or so small areas or at least the ones that look as the o ne you showed us.
on the rare occasion i have had something like that happen i have been able to just replace a small section or put a patch on that you don't even notice.
in the pic you show if you just printed that light red area with the wrinkle and either went over the top or cut it out and replaced it i bet wouldn't even be noticed but it would give your customer a quick and easy fix. is it perfect no but it should resolve the issue and would look better than that wrinkle
Click to expand...

Your average viewing wouldn't notice it but the people who are writing the check were literally looking for flaws. After putting a section up that had a flaw or two I explained to them that because of the waves in the drywall it was the best that I was going to be able to do and if that didn't meet their expectation I understood and would pack my materials up and go. They told me to keep going. Like Gino mentioned above, I think the only way to make this thing spot on was to print it on rigid panels and attach that to the wall. I think I would have had a better chance at it if I was using phototex but the customer needed something that wasn't going to get dirty. I guess I'm still learning.
 
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CanuckSigns

Active Member
gplough said:
Your average viewing wouldn't notice it but the people who are writing the check were literally looking for flaws. After putting a section up that had a flaw or two I explained to them that because of the waves in the drywall it was the best that I was going to be able to do and if that didn't meet their expectation I understood and would pack my materials up and go. They told me to keep going. Like Gino mentioned above, I think the only way to make this thing spot on was to print it on rigid panels and attach that to the wall. I think I would have had a better chance at it if I was using phototex but the customer needed something that wasn't going to get dirty. I guess I'm still learning.
Click to expand...
The wrinkle in the photo you posted is not from waves in the drywall, it's from improper installation technique, whoever installed this either was rushing or was inexperienced. an experienced installer could install these using the materials you used without issue.

At this point walk away, even if you offer to go fix it, the client will now be looking for every little issue, you will no longer be able to make them happy.
 
Moze

Moze

Precision Sign Services
I agree with the comment above. There shouldn't be wrinkles in this, especially since it's Control Tac. It definitely points to error in technique, which means you'll have the same issues again if replacing. I would see if they would agree to patching the sections with wrinkles.
 
White Haus

White Haus

Not a Newbie
On a somewhat related note, did they supply print-ready files for this or did you design these from scratch?
 
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gplough

New Member
White Haus said:
On a somewhat related note, did they supply print-ready files for this or did you design these from scratch?
Click to expand...

They supplied print files, initially told I would have a couple months to review, print and install, ended up being about 10 days.
 
White Haus

White Haus

Not a Newbie
gplough said:
They supplied print files, initially told I would have a couple months to review, print and install, ended up being about 10 days.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. Was gonna say if you set all that up I hope you were compensated fairly for that portion at least.

Well if the ship has sailed then I guess all you can do is walk away. Who knows, maybe the quotes they'll get to strip and replace will be higher than yours and they may reconsider. Either way, not a fun position to be in.

Hopefully you can chalk it up as a lesson learned and you don't run into this ever again.
 
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