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Anyone here part of a 100+ employee company?

FireSprint.com

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
We're only about 30, and most everyone here has their shot, but I am curious what it's like throughout our industry in larger organizations.

Seems like this is going to be pretty difficult to enforce.
 
WildWestDesigns

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Over here, companies that are over 100 are openly saying that they aren't going to be doing that (and the leaders of those companies have said that they themselves are vaxxed).

In my mind, I can't see how they would be able to truly enforce then for non fed employees (unless the companies capitulate and do it willingly). Now, there is a different threshold if the states are willing to do something (in my state, again, at this point doesn't seem to be the case).

This is no bueno in more ways then one.

Scuttle butt is that more is going to be announced and it may center around interstate travel as well. That may very well disturb the fragile supply chain some more. Pucker up y'all, it's coming, but I digress.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
You have to comply with ID laws, record keeping and a million other things, I don't see how it would be any harder than keeping up with I9s, drivers licenses, safety training, injuries and things like that. They do random drug testing at a lot of places without issues, CDL drivers have to get their physicals. The government probably wont be the one to worry about, the insurance companies will be the ones doing the record checking. When you ignore them they just cancel you and the reason why follows you around.
 
WildWestDesigns

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Notarealsignguy said:
You have to comply with ID laws, record keeping and a million other things, I don't see how it would be any harder than keeping up with I9s, drivers licenses, safety training, injuries and things like that.
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None of those that you specific listed interject a business and a employee's health in the same manner.

I do find it strange that the maternity wing of a New York hospital will no longer be delivering babies (at least in the near term), because of a spat of resignations due to the local mandates (imagine what happens when the supply chain is disrupted due to say truckers not liking the mandates etc (assuming that the speculation of interstate travel being affected is true)?). Bare in mind, this is resignations from health care workers, those that should have a better knowledge, versus the plebs like us. I just find that strange. I would say that those that are going to be willing to get the vaccine have done so, mandating it, isn't going to be convincing them otherwise, actually the opposite is true. A lot of faith was destroyed in the past year for quite a few people, this isn't going to help at all.

People need to realize that this is endemic, measures like this aren't going to do as much good as people leading healthier lifestyles (and sure there are some unfortunate ones that do lead healthy lifestyles that still get taking down and that happens with other things as well, so it isn't a cure all, but it does mitigate a crap ton of stuff), I've seen way to many pre-existing condition people that have had severe case of this or have died to make it seem like there isn't something to having a healthier lifestyle. But then again, unfortunately, most people just want that magic bullet and go back to the way things were.
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
WildWestDesigns said:
None of those that you specific listed interject a business and a employee's health in the same manner.

I do find it strange that the maternity wing of a New York hospital will no longer be delivering babies, because of a spat of resignations due to the local mandates (imagine what happens when the supply chain is disrupted due to say truckers not liking the mandates etc (assuming that the speculation of interstate travel being affected is true)?). Bare in mind, this is resignations from health care workers, those that should have a better knowledge, versus the plebs like us. I just find that strange. I would say that those that are going to be willing to get the vaccine have done so, mandating it, isn't going to be convincing them otherwise, actually the opposite is true. A lot of faith was destroyed in the past year for quite a few people, this isn't going to help at all.

People need to realize that this is endemic, measures like this aren't going to do as much good as people leading healthier lifestyles (and sure there are some unfortunate ones that do lead healthy lifestyles that still get taking down and that happens with other things as well, so it isn't a cure all, but it does mitigate a crap ton of stuff), I've seen way to many pre-existing condition people that have had severe case of this or have died to make it seem like there isn't something to having a healthier lifestyle. But then again, unfortunately, most people just want that magic bullet and go back to the way things were.
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The statement was that it seems like this is going to be pretty difficult to enforce. I stated facts of things that are already mandated and have not been hard to enforce, including medical. If an employee gets injured on the job and refuses medical treatment, you can tell them that they can not return to work until they go to the doctor and get cleared. They can and do make CDL drivers get physicals every 2 years. They require motor carriers to have random drug testing programs in place. If you cut your hand open while working and refuse to get a tetanus shot, it is quite possible that the doctor will not clear you to return to work and you could get fired. My wife is forced to get a flu shot every year from her employer, she says no and she gets fired. I had to get a TB test to work for the county. Many plumbers are required to get hepatitis vaccinations as a condition of employment. This is not new stuff here. You seem to be getting people liking it confused with the ability to enforce it. Precedent has been set years ago.
 
WildWestDesigns

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Notarealsignguy said:
The statement was that it seems like this is going to be pretty difficult to enforce. I stated facts of things that are already mandated and have not been hard to enforce, including medical. If an employee gets injured on the job and refuses medical treatment, you can tell them that they can not return to work until they go to the doctor and get cleared. They can and do make CDL drivers get physicals every 2 years. They require motor carriers to have random drug testing programs in place. If you cut your hand open while working and refuse to get a tetanus shot, it is quite possible that the doctor will not clear you to return to work and you could get fired. My wife is forced to get a flu shot every year from her employer, she says no and she gets fired. I had to get a TB test to work for the county. Many plumbers are required to get hepatitis vaccinations as a condition of employment. This is not new stuff here. You seem to be getting people liking it confused with the ability to enforce it. Precedent has been set years ago.
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Actually it still may fail there as well. EOs are not laws in the traditional sense, they still require people to willingly follow them. It is different if something is legislated and gone thru a process. If they were laws in the traditional sense, then the instance in Stillwater, OK wouldn't have happened and the original local EO wouldn't have been changed as quickly. EOs can be reversed very easily or just as easily contested (since the aforementioned legislative process wasn't done), I do think there have been some filings already, so the real determination would be after those happen(I can see the Fed employees being the most affected). It would be interesting to see if someone said no, but didn't resign. Then the business would be compelled to fire them. How that would handle in court.
 
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Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

Arial - it's almost helvetica
WildWestDesigns said:
Actually it still may fail there as well. EOs are not laws in the traditional sense, they still require people to willingly follow them. It is different if something is legislated and gone thru a process. If they were laws in the traditional sense, then the instance in Stillwater, OK wouldn't have happened and the original local EO wouldn't have been changed as quickly. EOs can be reversed very easily or just as easily contested (since the aforementioned legislative process wasn't done), I do think there have been some filings already, so the real determination would be after those happen(I can see the Fed employees being the most affected). It would be interesting to see if someone said no, but didn't resign. Then the business would be compelled to fire them. How that would handle in court.
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Its already happening and has been for ages and I don't see how so many people act as if this is some new found thing without precedent. Without even digging I'll name one: the US Army. Good luck refusing any vaccine with them. The only interesting thing you're going to see is lots of tears and adult temper tantrums.
 
WildWestDesigns

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
Again, legislated and also you are talking about the US Army. I can see that being the case. Shoot immigrants (all except the illegal ones apparently) have to go through a myriad of shots upon entry. I had to be vaxxed to go into the school system. But all that had been legislated in.

Now a court may up hold it and then there is nothing that one can do, but it will still has that hurdle (or they don't hear it and have the same net effect, until something later comes along that they do hear)). I am aware of one case, I think it was in 1905 and it was Mass. That was a state issue though, not federal.

Of course, there are also exceptions, although the exception of a natural immunity (from having previously contracted covid (now this is in Canada, but I do believe one person has won a case in that regard) or even an exception from those that their doctor is telling them not to get it due to health concerns (have a previous issue that would cause a higher risk for severe side effects etc, then there is usually the religous exemptions as well), I do not believe is in this mandate. Then, of course, what makes someone with a company of 99 people at less of a risk then someone with 100 people under their employ. It seems a little arbitrary other then it would fall under OSHA. And have a little more leg to stand on then if he went high on the hog and did everyone.

I find it strange, why wasn't the states involved in this? Why didn't he mandate states employees or withhold federal aid (now some states have mandated this and I do believe that there is a lawsuit in WA state right now over it)? Biden did threaten to withhold the vaccine if states didn't comply with what he wanted earlier, why didn't he do it with the vaccine now as far as going after states (or that may come later)?

Also, EO here has kids (depending on what the parents want to do) can go to school without masks. I know a few schools that are going against that. So while an EO is more binding then an EA, it's not quite as safe/binding so much compared to if it went through the legislative process.

Now, here is the thing with an EO, it's a little easier for the next person to come in and do away with it. There requires more of a push if it was legislated in.

I remember when a vaccine recently (as in recent memory) was mandated for school kids back in what 2007 TexasSignmaker, was that when he mandated it. That didn't turn out too well for him. By the way, that was an EO as well.
 
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Texas_Signmaker

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
WildWestDesigns said:
I remember when a vaccine recently (as in recent memory) was mandated for school kids back in what 2007 TexasSignmaker, was that when he mandated it. That didn't turn out too well for him. By the way, that was an EO as well.
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I remember something about girls getting vaccinated in school but I turned 21 in 2007 so I don't remember much... I was blitzed outa my head and grown up politics was the furthest thing from my mind.... kinda still is
 
Notarealsignguy

Notarealsignguy

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Executive order or not, the politics and fear driving all of this are starting to get overshadowed by those that just want to move forward and are tired of it all. The potential side effects justification for not getting it are also becoming disproven and less relevant. You can't fight city hall so either get the stupid thing or don't but they will move forward with the mandates no matter how the hardliners feel about it. Just being real here.
 
V

victor bogdanov

Active Member
Good thing congress and judicial branches can think for themselves and are exempt from the mandate while everyone else is too stupid to make decisions about what medical procedures they undergo
 
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