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Are vehicle wraps in decline?
- Thread starter shoresigns
- Start date
Rick
Certified Enneadecagon Designer
Seems like digital print is "entry level" for the sign business nowadays...
With entry level designers trying to copy better designers, your gonna get messy wraps installed poolrly. We just had a thread, typical of most new sign people with a printer, where a new company started with no real design skills or portfolio or experience and many here said, if you can sell, you should be fine. I don't think that's 100% accurate. Wraps (and digital print) still take skill and training to do well... so how did this become the new entry level is beyond me... maybe the glut of printer advertising in trade magazines. I remember when cut vinyl was entry level (and we discussed this on some other forum years ago) and before that, a can of paint and a brush...
How did we get from 20 bucks in supplies to 60k in equipment as entry level, and why are people crazy enough to invest that much into something they know nothing about, they put out $hit, and then wonder why they can't make money.
We have a few wrap specific business (who are very good) in our area and they seem to be doing fine. But they also know how to target their marketing, and they are known for their design and good install work.
I prefer clean design, but some of the wild work looks really good too (when skillfully done)
With entry level designers trying to copy better designers, your gonna get messy wraps installed poolrly. We just had a thread, typical of most new sign people with a printer, where a new company started with no real design skills or portfolio or experience and many here said, if you can sell, you should be fine. I don't think that's 100% accurate. Wraps (and digital print) still take skill and training to do well... so how did this become the new entry level is beyond me... maybe the glut of printer advertising in trade magazines. I remember when cut vinyl was entry level (and we discussed this on some other forum years ago) and before that, a can of paint and a brush...
How did we get from 20 bucks in supplies to 60k in equipment as entry level, and why are people crazy enough to invest that much into something they know nothing about, they put out $hit, and then wonder why they can't make money.
We have a few wrap specific business (who are very good) in our area and they seem to be doing fine. But they also know how to target their marketing, and they are known for their design and good install work.
I prefer clean design, but some of the wild work looks really good too (when skillfully done)
ExecuPrintGS
New Member
If anything we are doing more than ever. Love all the hate for wraps lol stay away from them good idea (more for us)
same here, we will take them if people don't want it.
jfiscus
Rap Master
The company I work for has been here for almost 20 years doing 99% vehicle graphics. We probably put graphics on 5-10,000 vehicles per year, and I would say that besides yard signs we only run about 50-100 jobs per year that are "signs". It started out with hand lettering and hand-cut vinyl graphics, then evolved into plotter-cut vinyl decals (& Edge prints). Then it progressed to Mimaki solvent printers when they first came out; I think they were like $125,000 back then. We try to keep the wraps we put out here looking good (the customer is ALWAYS right, lol) if we have a hand in their design, but a good portion come to use straight from corporate in-house designers and from other so-called designers who have never designed a wrap before. (fun fun!)
I have been designing since the late 90's, so I am not some newbie I hope I'm decently respected around here from all my posts.
All of our installers here are certified and great at their jobs or they wouldn't be here and we have a VERY low rate of issues with wraps. (1 or 2 per year come back for a quick fix)
I have been designing since the late 90's, so I am not some newbie I hope I'm decently respected around here from all my posts.
All of our installers here are certified and great at their jobs or they wouldn't be here and we have a VERY low rate of issues with wraps. (1 or 2 per year come back for a quick fix)
One of the major problems in it all is the customer, they are wanting to pay bottom dollar and are approving the designs that we are harping on about that are bad.
We dont tend to do too many digital prints, why? Because very few customers want to pay for both high quality material and high quality design. The cheaper price is all most customers care about, regardless of what you spin them on quality. Remember the cheap guys are also selling them the same story. A lot of places winning contracts to do fleet wraps, they win the contract because they are the lowest price, they have to cut costs somewhere when they win it. The amount of emails from companies I get that state ‘Our policy is to receive 3 quotes and then choose the cheapest of the 3’. As you can imagine my response back trying to educate them that’s not the smartest way to do it goes unheard
The customer is driving this poor quality, yes places are more than happy to throw it out there but they are just adapting to the fact that the customer will only go with them if they are the lowest price. Its just human instinct 101 these days to pay as little as possible to cut costs, I mean how many times have we ourselves gone the cheapest option for trades…
We dont tend to do too many digital prints, why? Because very few customers want to pay for both high quality material and high quality design. The cheaper price is all most customers care about, regardless of what you spin them on quality. Remember the cheap guys are also selling them the same story. A lot of places winning contracts to do fleet wraps, they win the contract because they are the lowest price, they have to cut costs somewhere when they win it. The amount of emails from companies I get that state ‘Our policy is to receive 3 quotes and then choose the cheapest of the 3’. As you can imagine my response back trying to educate them that’s not the smartest way to do it goes unheard
The customer is driving this poor quality, yes places are more than happy to throw it out there but they are just adapting to the fact that the customer will only go with them if they are the lowest price. Its just human instinct 101 these days to pay as little as possible to cut costs, I mean how many times have we ourselves gone the cheapest option for trades…
Kentucky Wraps
Kentucky Wraps
What did wraps do to you as a child?
Have you spent any time looking at wraps online?
Do you only do 1 color design on signs?
Have you seen any Dan Antonelli designs?
Is your vision grossly impaired?
Kentucky Wraps
Kentucky Wraps
I would agree that many are ugly and it's obvious they were either designed by a poor deisgner or the design was customer driven.
Good looking wraps are few and far between. That being said I wold say the same thing about a lot of marketing out there.
I would say Good Designers are few and far between. I'd bet there are 500 times more badly designed business cards, logos, and signs out there on our streets and building than there are badly designed wraps.
Obviously proportionately it's not the same.
The industry needs better designers. Yes.
To say the industry needs to go away though is retarded.
Good looking wraps are few and far between. That being said I wold say the same thing about a lot of marketing out there.
I would say Good Designers are few and far between. I'd bet there are 500 times more badly designed business cards, logos, and signs out there on our streets and building than there are badly designed wraps.
Obviously proportionately it's not the same.
The industry needs better designers. Yes.
To say the industry needs to go away though is retarded.
NO
I'm in an area with a lot of great signmakers and most shops do wraps including our own, but NO, I've never seen a SINGLE wrap designed and executed as well as what Dan comes up with on an average day.
I have Dan's book right on the front counter and can't count how many times, I've used it during a sales meeting to illustrate how good a wrap COULD be. 99% of the time, it all goes in one ear and out the other and then the requirement for 20 item bullet lists of services offered comes out, the need for camo, flames or other cool effects are articulated, and then it all goes out the window when the cost is calculated. Our local "wrap" specialist" has decided to charge several dollars per square foot below all of us and has ZERO hesitation covering vehicles with no shortage of camo, flames, overly rendered photoshop effects, barely legible text and main message logos.
We do our best to do the whole "education" trip, but frankly after 35+ years in the business, I get "education" fatigue pretty easily these days when its apparent the client has no intention of using for nothing but an education before heading down the street to the "specialist"
Kentucky Wraps
Kentucky Wraps
EXACTLY How I feel. As soon as the customer wants to take the wheel away from my designer...it all goes down hill from there. (Which is most of the time)
My designer started as a sign painter, sign writer, and has kept up with design technology via programs etc. He's been designing signage since before I was born.
ExecuPrintGS
New Member
I agree with this...
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Kinda. We don't need more, we need to get rid of all the lousy ones. If we did that, we would start to see an increase in quality of all designs and layouts.
Next, you'd hafta get rid of all the non-signmaking people.
Once you have professionals back in charge, instead of all these backyard hacks [AND I'M NOT REFERRING TO HOME BASED...... JUST HACKS] you'd have better quality made fabrications. True craftsmanship and pride would come to the surface again, instead of the bottom dollar feeder store mindset.
How do I color calibrate my monitor ?? Where do I get the cheapest ink ?? What's this...... it's on the tip of my tongue ?? 
reQ
New Member
Kinda. We don't need more, we need to get rid of all the lousy ones. If we did that, we would start to see an increase in quality of all designs and layouts.
Next, you'd hafta get rid of all the non-signmaking people.
Once you have professionals back in charge, instead of all these backyard hacks [AND I'M NOT REFERRING TO HOME BASED...... JUST HACKS] you'd have better quality made fabrications. True craftsmanship and pride would come to the surface again, instead of the bottom dollar feeder store mindset.
How do I color calibrate my monitor ?? Where do I get the cheapest ink ?? What's this...... it's on the tip of my tongue ??
Not possible, since anyone can buy a printer and call themselves "Sign Shop"
reQ
New Member
Lol but thats completely different. Any supplier will sell any equipment to anyone, they don't care if you have any experience or no, they are all in it for money... we all are in business for the moneyThey said it wasn't possible to get rid of smallpox and polio. It can be done.......
Problem is that any hack goes into business simply because they think they can do same stuff & make top dollar.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
Lol but thats completely different. Any supplier will sell any equipment to anyone, they don't care if you have any experience or no, they are all in it for money... we all are in business for the money
Problem is that any hack goes into business simply because they think they can do same stuff & make top dollar.
Then, we must go in pursuit of such vendors and do away with them. If that doesn't work, go up higher on the ladder until we rid ourselves of this deadly disease known as 'Hackism'.
Just like the smallpox and stuff. If you go after the symptoms, you achieve nothing. You must go for the source, annihilate it and stop it from ever producing again and it will be gone..... FOREVER.
We, personally have had the best year since we have been open 10years. last year was the best until this year. If you know good design and use good material and have good business sense you can sell a wrap and execute it well. In my area everyone thinks the same as most of you guys and say wraps are hard, they take too much time and look bad and don'y last. We have capitalized on that mindset and have become the go to wrap company in my area and surrounding areas. People still want wraps but they have seen what the bad ones look like and most will say upfront "we don't want it too cluttered". Your portfolio should sell them on the products or services you do well, and for us that is wrapping and designing good looking wraps or partial wraps. If a company can afford a billboard that costs $600 a month and can never be used again..then surely we can sell them on a one time fee of a couple thousand or more that will last 6 years or so. The problem in the wrap industry is that it changes so rapidly with new machines and material so the shops are chomping at the new best printer or product and I frankly think some vinyl manufacturers have helped to tear down the wrap industry with poor quality and not enough research. Not to mention the warranties you get on most wrap products are pretty much useless unless you document when your customer changes their underwear, or the names of all their kids...lol. You have to be honest with the customer about the length of life they can expect and we personally offer an install warranty of one year to cover any installation mistakes. We have been successful and will continue to be with God's help of course.
toucan_graphics
New Member
I've honestly only done ONE printed wrap in the past 3 years. Everything else has been partial wraps and cut vinyl, which if done right are just as effective as a full wrap. I have done a couple color-change wraps for local kids looking to spiff up their car for an upcoming car club event. (a little Carbon fiber here and Hexis chrome there etc etc)
Roughly 70% of my business comes from 16-25 year old kids on tight budgets so they always opt for cut vinyl over any wrap product. I have a higher profit potential here anyway because they change their mind from month to month about what is hip and trendy, so most of my stuff only stays on their vehicles for 6 months or less before they change it to something new anyway. As long as kids are in school and the weather is nice, my plotter rarely stops going.
Roughly 70% of my business comes from 16-25 year old kids on tight budgets so they always opt for cut vinyl over any wrap product. I have a higher profit potential here anyway because they change their mind from month to month about what is hip and trendy, so most of my stuff only stays on their vehicles for 6 months or less before they change it to something new anyway. As long as kids are in school and the weather is nice, my plotter rarely stops going.
MainostePrint
New Member
Hi guys. Such an interesting topic, I'm learning like crazy. this is my first post in this forum so I hope I reply correctly and won't mess up this whole site lol.
The company where I'm working has been up for appx. 25 years. I've only worked there for 1,5 years now and I'm 24 myself. It's my dads tiny sign shop and I'm now responsible of the production. In my eyes we never did too much vehicle graphics compared to the other stuff that we do, like normal signs etc. Well, maybe 1 car per week or two, but usually it's just simple stuff, like logo+website with cutvinyl. To be honest I think it's because there's been a lack of knowledge and skills for proper installation techniques and new materials with quicker installation times. Pricing goes off and quality is low...
However I'm kind of new school dude and I see full commercial wraps and partial wraps as a huge opportunity for us. maybe it's because I've done loads of color change wraps (with my own trade name 'TopWrapz') for past few years and I know my skills at this point. When a good design, installer and material meets, there's money to be made for sure and you can be proud from what you have done. It would be super cool to see some well designed commercial wraps to get ideas from you guys. Could you post links or pics to show your best commercial wraps from ours and customers perspective?
ps. I started typing all kinds of random stuff but wiped them out since they went way out of the topic. I'm just so exited that I found this amazing forum with tons of stuff to be learned
The company where I'm working has been up for appx. 25 years. I've only worked there for 1,5 years now and I'm 24 myself. It's my dads tiny sign shop and I'm now responsible of the production. In my eyes we never did too much vehicle graphics compared to the other stuff that we do, like normal signs etc. Well, maybe 1 car per week or two, but usually it's just simple stuff, like logo+website with cutvinyl. To be honest I think it's because there's been a lack of knowledge and skills for proper installation techniques and new materials with quicker installation times. Pricing goes off and quality is low...
However I'm kind of new school dude and I see full commercial wraps and partial wraps as a huge opportunity for us. maybe it's because I've done loads of color change wraps (with my own trade name 'TopWrapz') for past few years and I know my skills at this point. When a good design, installer and material meets, there's money to be made for sure and you can be proud from what you have done. It would be super cool to see some well designed commercial wraps to get ideas from you guys. Could you post links or pics to show your best commercial wraps from ours and customers perspective?
ps. I started typing all kinds of random stuff but wiped them out since they went way out of the topic. I'm just so exited that I found this amazing forum with tons of stuff to be learned