Artist wants to cut...

[Keith Patton]

Hey all,
Im an artist and am going to try ACM (dibond) as a painting surface. I don't have and can't afford expensive equipment.

I'm curious if it's possible to handcut the dibond into organic shapes with an xacto or utility knife? By that I mean, I'd like to cut the dibond into shapes like a letter, or flower, or person, etc.

I'm also wondering if it's possible to bond another piece of ACM to the polyester side of the dibond? Meaning, can I have a larger piece of dibond, and then glue/bond a smaller piece on top, so I can paint on both "levels" so to speak?

Thanks!

 

[JTBoh]

Dremel would work.
Keep in mind that all ACM has a ~.012 face of aluminum on each side, and that the edge is visible. Also keep in mind that all cuts should be vertical so that that edge doesn't become more pronounced.

Why not PVC? Or wood? Both are much better for painting and carving.

 

[Marlene]

Not too sure what you mean "the polyester side" of the Dibond. If you have real Dibond it has aluminum front and back and yes, you can layer it. Not too sure hand cutting shapes would be all the easy or look that great. You could try a jig saw and might get better results. Why not wood or PVC?

 

[Gino]

As the others have mentioned, it's not good for hand cutting and it's not at all good for painting, if you're an artsy kinda guy. Using brushes, stippling brushes and/or fans won't produce nice results, as there is no tooth on that substrate for your paint to adhere. Spraying and even rolling on paint will work, but not artists paints, not for the most part.

Stick to wood and cut things out with a jigsaw or scroll saw or even a band saw. Prep it and paint til your heart's content.

 

[KMC]

you can paint on it but i would recommend scuffing up the side your going to paint on with a fine piece of sandpaper also automotive paint works really well
as for cutting it, if you can clamp it down and use a type of drill bit like a router
sticking together there is a aluminum 2 part weld on glue (cant remember the name) DO NOT USE IT for this substrate as it melts right through the compound and causes ripples in the other side, you are better with using E6000 to get the strong bond

 

[Dan360]

We cut waves in it with a jigsaw, cuts just fine but anything too complex becomes a mess. Dremel is a real pain compared to jigsaw.

 

[2B]

you can also look into using / doing a hand held router

ACM is easy to cut, and as other have said there are better options for paint

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Is there any particular reason you want to use ACM versus another substrate?

Unless you have a specialty cutter that's going to roll the edges of the material after you cut it, you'll have to file all the edges to smooth them out. Assuming you're not just really keen on slicing your hands to ribbons any time you handle it (that's a bit of hyperbole, but you can get some nasty cuts from ACM).

 

[bob]

Get a Cutawl. Very pricey new but used are available at reasonable prices. They last forever. There's a bewildering array of blades available for every conceivable purpose, Dibond included. With this tool you easily can cut any shape imaginable.

 

[Pat Whatley]

You can do it with a jigsaw, the stuff cuts nicely. Bob's suggestion of a Cutawl is better. Mine is so old it had a thread wrapped power cord to it and is still rock solid. You'll be amazed at how easy it is to cut intricate stuff with one.

Painting it isn't really an issue. Cut it, deburr your edges, scuff it and paint it. I've been using oil based enamels and latex on it and haven't had a problem.

 

[AKwrapguy]

Hey all,
Im an artist and am going to try ACM (dibond) as a painting surface. I don't have and can't afford expensive equipment.

I'm curious if it's possible to handcut the dibond into organic shapes with an xacto or utility knife? By that I mean, I'd like to cut the dibond into shapes like a letter, or flower, or person, etc.

I'm also wondering if it's possible to bond another piece of ACM to the polyester side of the dibond? Meaning, can I have a larger piece of dibond, and then glue/bond a smaller piece on top, so I can paint on both "levels" so to speak?

Thanks!

You might be better off with PVC or wood... You can get the PVC in multiple sizes. The issue that your going to have with Di-bond is that it has a thin sheet of aluminum on both sides. So cutting by hand will be difficult and give you very rough edges that could be kinda dangerous. You can pick up 1/4 inch sintra and it would be able to do what you want and a lot easier to work with.

 

[Keith Patton]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

To everyone asking why I'd choose ACM over wood or canvas:

ACM is becoming popular with artists. Art supply stores are now selling precut ACM boards. It's better than wood because it doesn't expand and contract with heat/humidity, won't rot, and is much more lightweight than wood. It's also cheaper.

Oil paintings crack because the surface expands and contracts beyond the limits of the paint film. Wood and cloth also rot eventually, and wood can warp easily. ACM expands and contracts *much* less than wood does.

I'll check out the cutawl, hopefully I can find a used one cheap enough!

 

[Johnny Best]

So my children's children will be able to see Keith Patton's artwork without paint cracks because it was on ACM in their future trip to the museums?
There are a lot of other reasons paint cracks on wood panels or canvas. Binders in the oil paints when painted, fat over lean method not followed or prep of board or canvas.
Are you planning on prepping the ACM with gesso or primer and are you using oil or acrylic paints to do these displays.

 

[Marlene]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

To everyone asking why I'd choose ACM over wood or canvas:

ACM is becoming popular with artists. Art supply stores are now selling precut ACM boards. It's better than wood because it doesn't expand and contract with heat/humidity, won't rot, and is much more lightweight than wood. It's also cheaper.

Oil paintings crack because the surface expands and contracts beyond the limits of the paint film. Wood and cloth also rot eventually, and wood can warp easily. ACM expands and contracts *much* less than wood does.

I'll check out the cutawl, hopefully I can find a used one cheap enough!

Why are you asking a bunch of sign makers a question you should be asking the art supply store? Since it has become popular in your circles, it seems like they would have the kind of answers you are looking for.

 

[Keith Patton]

Actually, I work in the arts (I paint for a "famous" contemporary artist), and have been told museums are now backing old master paintings with aluminum panels.

Yes, I'm aware about fat over lean and all that. But the biggest reason paintings in museums are cracked is the expansion and contraction. That's why 500 year old panel paintings are almost always in better shape than 150 year old paintings on stretched linen. The problem with wood is that it's so heavy at larger sizes, and also warps.

I'm going to try sanding the primed side and use an acrylic "gesso," maybe try an alkyd gesso, and might just glue canvas to the panels. I hate stretching canvas, I can never get it tight enough, and stretched canvases are actually less archival than panels or canvas on panels anyways.



Here's a popular artists blog talking about it:

Painting Stuff to Look Like Stuff: More Apocalypse-Surviving Panels

This post has info from George O'Hanlon, who manufactures high quality art supplies and works with conservationists and museums:
To Make a Painting to Last, Give it a Strong Foundation

 

[Keith Patton]

Why are you asking a bunch of sign makers a question you should be asking the art supply store? Since it has become popular in your circles, it seems like they would have the kind of answers you are looking for.

Art supply stores don't cut them into organic shapes and don't layer panels on top of each other. That's why I asked about those questions, and not about proper surface gesso, sanding, etc.

 

[KMC]

Why are you asking a bunch of sign makers a question you should be asking the art supply store? Since it has become popular in your circles, it seems like they would have the kind of answers you are looking for.

Actually Marlene, Keith asked in the correct place regarding the substrate I've had artists come to my work asking about the panels and getting them cut, as an artist myself I am always thinking outside the box for what I can do with some of the products we use at the shop

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Actually, I work in the arts (I paint for a "famous" contemporary artist), and have been told museums are now backing old master paintings with aluminum panels.

Yes, I'm aware about fat over lean and all that. But the biggest reason paintings in museums are cracked is the expansion and contraction. That's why 500 year old panel paintings are almost always in better shape than 150 year old paintings on stretched linen. The problem with wood is that it's so heavy at larger sizes, and also warps.

I'm going to try sanding the primed side and use an acrylic "gesso," maybe try an alkyd gesso, and might just glue canvas to the panels. I hate stretching canvas, I can never get it tight enough, and stretched canvases are actually less archival than panels or canvas on panels anyways.



Here's a popular artists blog talking about it:

Painting Stuff to Look Like Stuff: More Apocalypse-Surviving Panels

This post has info from George O'Hanlon, who manufactures high quality art supplies and works with conservationists and museums:
To Make a Painting to Last, Give it a Strong Foundation

Pretty sure everybody hates stretching canvas.

 

[Sandman]

I've been painting on those panels for years. Dibond, Alupanel, and Alumalite. As long as you scuff the surface before painting you won't have a problem. Scuff, tack cloth, paint. I've painted alkyd enamels (One Shot, Ronan) high quality latex, and automotive base / clear. Never had a problem. A jig saw with a fine tooth metal cutting blade will work fine. Routers work good but a little trickier to control. I would also recommend getting a deburring tool. Your local hardware store should have them, if not Amazon carries several models. It cleans up the edges real quick. Lastly, I have glued up many Dibond type panels with epoxy, not the 5 minute type but good epoxy like West System or Precision Board's PB Resin. Many hardware stores also carry epoxy in quarts. PB Resin gives you a longer working time with 24 hours for full cure. West System has slow and fast hardeners. Fast hardener can be set in as little as 6 hours. Pour a thin bead around the perimeter a couple inches away from the edge and strips 6 inches apart. I use my wife's hair color bottles with a needle nose tip. Tape the two sheets in several places to keep them from slipping and add some weight to the top. Paint cans or little do it yourself sand bags work fine. Good luck.

 

[ddarlak]

just out of curiosity, what's the difference between organic shapes and regular old shapes?

are the organic shapes raised on a farm without chemicals?