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Artwork for channel letter and other signage projects

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
Chuck Taylor said:
Does anyone know where I can purchase 3D vector artwork to create signage drawings for raceways, channel letters, etc. or if there is software out there to do this?

Typically, channel letter sign designs are all done in 2D form, rarely 3D. 99% of channel letter sign projects are not worth the time required to model out in 3D. The front view is a given, maybe with both close-up "detail" front and side views of the sign and then front views of the sign on the building fascia. Many sign companies merely super-impose the letters over a photo of the building rather than actually draw out an accurate surveyed drawing of the building elevation. Short cuts.

Some cities will insist on real technical drawings of the sign placed on an accurate scale technical drawing (NOT photograph) of the building elevation, with plenty of dimension call-outs provided. And then a rapidly growing number of really anal-retentive city governments will demand section detail drawings showing a cross-section of all the electrical work inside the sign and running into the building. They want all of that before they will provide an installation permit. Still, all of this work is done in 2D form.

BTW, very little of this stuff can be done with stock art. The technical mumbo jumbo and template stuff for a company's sketch is about the only thing that can be treated and re-purposed in such a manner. Company logos and other assets are all pretty unique and often bring their own issues (like the company logo not even being in a useable format).

I've rarely had the need to create true 3D renderings of channel letter signs. Customers will certainly ask for that. But time is money and farting around in 3D modeling software is a luxury many of us can't waste time pursuing. If one of our clients insists on seeing a true 3D rendering of a sign on a building elevation they are going to pay for the labor involved in making that rendering happen. They will NOT get it for free. Importing assets into 3D modeling programs and then doing further manipulation is a real P.I.T.A. It is a time-suck with very few real benefits in the work flow. The artwork in most arc/line/spline-based 3D modeling applications doesn't translate well over into the Bezier curve environment where the vast majority of graphic design work is done. So any such work is done first in 2D form and then imported into 3D modeling software if that must happen. The shop drawings are done in 2D. This 3D stuff is just extra demands coming from a customer which would exist outside the normal work flow.

SketchUp is very popular with a lot of commercial and residential structure building firms. It's subscription-based software now though. Blender is also popular and free. Very often someone with a commercial building project will have a builder firm working on it and have some kind of model in 3D software. Collaborating with such a firm, providing them with 2D assets to import into their 3D model of the project, can be a real short cut.
 
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Chuck Taylor

New Member
Chuck Taylor,
My apologies if I have offended you.
No malice intended.
Search the web. It's out there. Do a search for a 3d model of a bolt .You will be amazed.
Put on that creative hat and you are good to go
Thank you - I appreciate your message and your suggestion as to where to search for these elements.
 

Chuck Taylor

New Member
Typically, channel letter sign designs are all done in 2D form, rarely 3D. 99% of channel letter sign projects are not worth the time required to model out in 3D. The front view is a given, maybe with both close-up "detail" front and side views of the sign and then front views of the sign on the building fascia. Many sign companies merely super-impose the letters over a photo of the building rather than actually draw out an accurate surveyed drawing of the building elevation. Short cuts.

Some cities will insist on real technical drawings of the sign placed on an accurate scale technical drawing (NOT photograph) of the building elevation, with plenty of dimension call-outs provided. And then a rapidly growing number of really anal-retentive city governments will demand section detail drawings showing a cross-section of all the electrical work inside the sign and running into the building. They want all of that before they will provide an installation permit. Still, all of this work is done in 2D form.

BTW, very little of this stuff can be done with stock art. The technical mumbo jumbo and template stuff for a company's sketch is about the only thing that can be treated and re-purposed in such a manner. Company logos and other assets are all pretty unique and often bring their own issues (like the company logo not even being in a useable format).

I've rarely had the need to create true 3D renderings of channel letter signs. Customers will certainly ask for that. But time is money and farting around in 3D modeling software is a luxury many of us can't waste time pursuing. If one of our clients insists on seeing a true 3D rendering of a sign on a building elevation they are going to pay for the labor involved in making that rendering happen. They will NOT get it for free. Importing assets into 3D modeling programs and then doing further manipulation is a real P.I.T.A. It is a time-suck with very few real benefits in the work flow. The artwork in most arc/line/spline-based 3D modeling applications doesn't translate well over into the Bezier curve environment where the vast majority of graphic design work is done. So any such work is done first in 2D form and then imported into 3D modeling software if that must happen. The shop drawings are done in 2D. This 3D stuff is just extra demands coming from a customer which would exist outside the normal work flow.

SketchUp is very popular with a lot of commercial and residential structure building firms. It's subscription-based software now though. Blender is also popular and free. Very often someone with a commercial building project will have a builder firm working on it and have some kind of model in 3D software. Collaborating with such a firm, providing them with 2D assets to import into their 3D model of the project, can be a real short cut.
Thanks so much for your very informative response, Bobby - I am trying to go between what the client wants, what the city requires, and what my installer and manufacturer recommends for this project, which is a bit of a "time-suck" on it's own, never mind creating drawings to try and convey this information correctly to everyone involved, all on a very tight deadline.

Hopefully the applications you have recommended will help save us some valuable time.

I sincerely appreciate the information you have conveyed regarding 2D and 3D drawings as I wasn't really interested in trying to learn a whole new software application in the process :)

All the best,
Chuck
 

Bobby H

Arial Sucks.
A city's sign code requires a 3D rendering of the sign depicted on the building? Really? If that's the case then I'm 100% sure the rule is there as an attempt to prevent businesses installing channel letter signs at all. Some municipal sign codes are deliberately crafted like that. Bury the sign company in so much red tape they either refuse to take the job or charge the client a ridiculous amount of money to do the work.
 

Texas_Signmaker

Very Active Signmaker
I'm sure all they want is a side detail drawing. Use that thing you found on Google and call it a day. Follow everyone else's motto in this world and slap together bare minimum to pass.
 

weyandsign

New Member
Slap a drop shadow on it and call it 3D. I've never had to extrude an actual 3D model in autocad for permits. I've done one isometric drawing in flexi and felt it was a waste of time. I've done many wireframe technical drawings though, but only when I have the sense that it's actually needed.
 

Scotchbrite

No comment
I have yet to run into a permit situation that wasn't fine with a face view and a side profile view with dimensions. There have been a couple of times they wanted to see a drawing of how the sign was wired, but that can be done 2D also. I would be surprised if you actually need to create a 3D cut-away drawing.
 

Chuck Taylor

New Member
I have yet to run into a permit situation that wasn't fine with a face view and a side profile view with dimensions. There have been a couple of times they wanted to see a drawing of how the sign was wired, but that can be done 2D also. I would be surprised if you actually need to create a 3D cut-away drawing.
Thanks very much for your input - in our area there are so many different municipalities, and they all want something different. It's great to hear what other people's experiences have been!
 

Chuck Taylor

New Member
I have yet to run into a permit situation that wasn't fine with a face view and a side profile view with dimensions. There have been a couple of times they wanted to see a drawing of how the sign was wired, but that can be done 2D also. I would be surprised if you actually need to create a 3D cut-away drawi
Slap a drop shadow on it and call it 3D. I've never had to extrude an actual 3D model in autocad for permits. I've done one isometric drawing in flexi and felt it was a waste of time. I've done many wireframe technical drawings though, but only when I have the sense that it's actually needed.
I like the way you think LOL, yes, slapping a drop shadow in behind or extruding the artwork to make it look more dimensional certainly beats the prospect of dicking around in a 3D application of which I know nothing about!
 

Adam Vreeke

Knows just enough to get in a lot of trouble..
If you have a lot of the same elements in Illustrator, what you can do is make one, go to Window > Symbols. Select the element and save it as a symbol. Make sure to save all your symbols so you can import them, then just use symbol sprayer, pick what you need and throw it on.
 

Aaron Hunter

New Member
I learned CorelDraw in the beginning just to create these types of drawings. Biggest reason I prefer CD? Page scale and just enough side tools that give you enough perspective, extrusion, and colorization to finish off a proper inpic or rendering. You’re looking for side view templates with a dash of something else (the inpic). The templates for permit purposes…the dash of something else to sell the job. The biggest thing I had pride in was I could go from sales drawing to production files (eps,dxf, etc) to run from as well as telling a fab guy to use his scale ruler vs bugging me.
 
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