Artwork theft and showing your portfolio on other sites

[Joe Diaz]

This one is kind of related to my post about crowdsourcing/spec-work. I have a bunch of logo designer friends on facebook and a few on here. Some of them are freelancers, some not. Every once-in-a-while I'll see a designer post up examples of other people ripping off their work, and they have every right to complain about it. I would. It sucks. Anyway, they post the offender's design, than a link to theirs on dribbble or logopond. And that got me thinkin. I've noticed those sites have become a hot spot for people to steal work. I mean... all that great eye candy in one spot... For most of us it provides inspiration, others it's a convenient spot to search for designs to steal. But what I really wonder is: does publishing your designs on those sites result in more work? Are people finding designers to hire on those sites? or do only other fellow designers know about them? Are they simply a place to get feedback about design work you have done from other designers? Most importantly, does the pros of publishing on those sites outweigh the cons of being ripped off? I've always considered posting designs on those sites, but have always been scared away by the negative things that seem to result from doing so.

 

[Pat Whatley]

The pros of posting there or here is that you get reviewed by talented professionals. The con is that you also get reviewed by talentless people who just jump on the prevailing bandwagon. Rarely do you see an actual intelligent opinion or discussion that results in improving your design or talent level.

And yes, it's probably a good way to get your work stolen but that's unfortunately become an unavoidable part of the industry. There is a local tire company with a logo design that was BLATANTLY copied from a dribble post. Nothing had been changed but the name, same colors, fonts, design, everything. A friend of mine notified the original designer....he didn't care.

Speaking of stolen logo designs I saw this the other day....

 

[OldPaint]

but pat........(jokingly)look at all the changes they DID MAKE.................. to try and disguise it from the original)))))))

 

[visual800]

Good post! I throw most of the good stuff on facebook some ill throw on here. I know its a chance and whats going to happen, no biggy for me. I use designs as inspiration not gonna lie. There is no one person with all the best ideas as we all hit a wall every now and then.

dan posted something one day on here and I thought it was cool. It was an emblem type design with red and dark red lines thru it with a cursive name across it. I sat down at comp and reproduced it and threw a fake name on it. I then posted it on here. As a joke of course i could never replicate the other stuff he does its not in my mind to do it. Sometimes I look at his stuff to get font ideas because those designs match the era to a T!

 

[Fred Weiss]

As has often been stated ... the internet changes everything.

It's like the wild west out there. Lots of opportunity, lots of tenderfoots who don't know the rules, lots of robbers and very few marshals to enforce the law. We're all looking to find some gold, get it safely to the bank and retire to Leisure Acres. Along the way we may get robbed by thieves or take a loss because some newcomer doesn't know he's claim jumping. But, if we're persistent, we still keep going on profitably.

I'm sure the movie studios would love to get the Chinese government to crack down on the counterfeiters, but they still sell DVDs of their movies because it's still profitable. Successful fashion and product designers still release new work everyday even knowing it will show up tenfold in illegal copies. I still sell my clip art and seamless tiles even though more than I sell get illegally redistributed. For every innovator there are 1,000 copiers and 1,000,000 customers who will buy it no matter where it came from. In the history of mankind, there is no example anyone can name of a discovery, invention or design that has created a profit for only the creator of it. All an innovator can do is their best to profit as much as possible from their creations.

So if showing your portfolio brings you more business directly or indirectly than not showing it, then one must conclude that you should show it.

 

[John Butto]

artwork theif

I have seen people copy Shutterstock images and google vector is another more that the above posts mentioned. Almost every subject is covered and some times when laying out two or three letter logo there will be one like it so that is common and most of the time not done with intent to steal. Some copy or buy a vector off the web they see and copy part of it, I am not a lawyer so I do not know if that is acceptable as law, but if you do own up to it. Most people request original art, but sometimes they are not getting it. If you draw a hand from your own hand holding a brush, as I did on another post, well, you will find something similar on the web because it has been done a million times and from every angle. Is that wrong, is not that my hand holding the brush. But the one of the Dog Sign, now that is a original idea and just a few tweaks still is plagiarism, but I really do not care because that is someone's property and what happens on their property, unless they are making bombs or keeping people locked in the basement, does not concern me.
But back to Mr. Joe's question about being afraid of having his or his buds stuff stolen. Unless you keep it hidden in a closet so as not to be seen, it will not be copied. And like someone had mention about a friend, I do not care if people copy anything that I have done, I do not feel that talented because when you see the likes of Michelangelo and what he could do with a chuck of marble and do the things he accomplished, well it makes me very humble.
And then there is the monkey selfie that someone tried to claim as ownership, and the judge said that the monkey own it and it went viral, so I copied it for you.

 

[bob]

If you are really and truly good at what you do, no one would be able to copy whatever you've done. If you're somewhat insecure over your abilities, as Mssr. Diaz continually demonstrates that he is, the specter of someone copying something you've done probably gives a serious tweak to your sensibilities.

Michelangelo [that would be Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simon, not Michelangelo Merisi, more commonly known as Caravaggio] most likely didn't fear anyone copying his work because no one could copy his work. Likewise for all the ancient and old masters. Not only didn't any of then care a whit, they took on acolytes, often squads of them, whose job it was to copy the work and style of their master. Some of these went on to become masters themselves, with their own style and technique, but none of them could be the original master.

As the lead character in the movie 'Incognito' said "Only Rembrandt can paint a Rembrandt." An obscure but terrific movie with Jason Patric and, briefly, Rod Steiger.

 

[Rick]

The few designers I know on Logopond and Dribble are looking for
exposure and web presence. Many are also on Coroflot, Carbonnade
and Behance. It's about giving your potential clients confidence that
you are good.

These days, it's very hard to do this business without a website. So
you have to have some web presence. If you want to stay local, maintain
your business website and Facebook and I would imagine thievery will be
kept to a minimum. If you are looking for national or global work, sad
to say you have to stick your neck out and your work will get pinched.

But as easy at is is to get your work stolen, it's about as easy as getting
caught... and/or exposed

Corporate Example:
http://www.adweek.com/adfreak/seattle-design-firm-needs-your-help-fight-disney-target-145174

Crowdsource/Logomills:
http://drawsigner.com/2011/08/26/logogate-2011/

A small firm getting caught:
http://archives.rockpaperink.com/content/column.php?id=273&catid=79

 

[fozzie]

The pros of posting there or here is that you get reviewed by talented professionals. The con is that you also get reviewed by talentless people who just jump on the prevailing bandwagon. Rarely do you see an actual intelligent opinion or discussion that results in improving your design or talent level.

And yes, it's probably a good way to get your work stolen but that's unfortunately become an unavoidable part of the industry. There is a local tire company with a logo design that was BLATANTLY copied from a dribble post. Nothing had been changed but the name, same colors, fonts, design, everything. A friend of mine notified the original designer....he didn't care.

Speaking of stolen logo designs I saw this the other day....

What I love besides the blatant theft of the lion bird image is their name is bird dog signs yet have an image of a lion (cat)

 

[Desert_Signs]

If you are really and truly good at what you do, no one would be able to copy whatever you've done. If you're somewhat insecure over your abilities, as Mssr. Diaz continually demonstrates that he is, the specter of someone copying something you've done probably gives a serious tweak to your sensibilities.

Michelangelo [that would be Michelangelo di Lodovico Buonarroti Simon, not Michelangelo Merisi, more commonly known as Caravaggio] most likely didn't fear anyone copying his work because no one could copy his work. Likewise for all the ancient and old masters. Not only didn't any of then care a whit, they took on acolytes, often squads of them, whose job it was to copy the work and style of their master. Some of these went on to become masters themselves, with their own style and technique, but none of them could be the original master.

As the lead character in the movie 'Incognito' said "Only Rembrandt can paint a Rembrandt." An obscure but terrific movie with Jason Patric and, briefly, Rod Steiger.

Congratulations.

 

[Joe Diaz]

LOL, it's not often I'm accused of being insecure, I've been accused of being cocky plenty of times. Nevertheless, I would think it's healthy to be somewhat unsure of your abilities, to feel that there is room to improve, and that there is plenty of work and things to learn before you reach the top of your game... even if the top of your game will never reach the level of those old masters.

But here, today, modern day earth.... I cannot think of any logo designer that I know of that is beyond being copied, and there are some really great designers out there. It's certainly not the end of the world if they are, but it's not desirable when it happens. Some of the best logos I've ever seen are extremely easy to copy. The level of complexity isn't what makes them great.

And by copying, I'm not talking about being inspired or trying to mimic a style. Pat has a good example. It's not the best logo out there, but it's clever. The concept is what makes it valuable, and it's the concept that was copied. That part of the design is clearly valuable enough that another company would copy it. This is the type of copying that I'm talking about.

But I guess copying isn't really the main point of my thread. I realize it's unavoidable. I've been doing it long enough to know that. But it does seem as though those sites in-particular are targeted... and it's common to see that type of behavior, more so than on other places like a personal website or a facebook page. My main question is: Does anyone know if those sites are a good place to pick up business? Rick has been the only one to somewhat address the question. If not, really all your doing is serving your stuff up on a plate.

 

[Dan Antonelli]

LOL, it's not often I'm accused of being insecure, I've been accused of being cocky plenty of times. Nevertheless, I would think it's healthy to be somewhat unsure of your abilities, to feel that there is room to improve, and that there is plenty of work and things to learn before you reach the top of your game... even if the top of your game will never reach the level of those old masters.

But here, today, modern day earth.... I cannot think of any logo designer that I know of that is beyond being copied, and there are some really great designers out there. It's certainly not the end of the world if they are, but it's not desirable when it happens. Some of the best logos I've ever seen are extremely easy to copy. The level of complexity isn't what makes them great.

And by copying, I'm not talking about being inspired or trying to mimic a style. Pat has a good example. It's not the best logo out there, but it's clever. The concept is what makes it valuable, and it's the concept that was copied. That part of the design is clearly valuable enough that another company would copy it. This is the type of copying that I'm talking about.

But I guess copying isn't really the main point of my thread. I realize it's unavoidable. I've been doing it long enough to know that. But it does seem as though those sites in-particular are targeted... and it's common to see that type of behavior, more so than on other places like a personal website or a facebook page. My main question is: Does anyone know if those sites are a good place to pick up business? Rick has been the only one to somewhat address the question. If not, really all your doing is serving your stuff up on a plate.

We sometimes get requests from one of our designers who has a few pieces on Dribble, but it's never turned into a job. We've gotten more work from Pinterest, and Instagram. Pinterest is no less a mecca to have work copied from than those other sources, but it has turned into work. We just had a nice client come via Pinterest that has about a $25k project passing through here, so it has worked.

I can tell you that on the publishing side, writing a few books on branding is an equal double-edged sword. After the first two books I had a lot of 'inspired' work out there. When I'm notified about theft (generally by the design community), I notify the client immediately. Many have pursued actions against those that have committed trademark or copyright infringement. All in all its a pain in the ***, no doubt.

Im pretty sure if someone says 'I want a logo just like Joe Diaz does' that they'll get a half-assed wanna-bee attempt at that. So much of our work that is ripped off is just that - a half-assed attempt at getting the real thing.

 

[John Butto]

It is a long way to the top...

be careful coming down bob

 

[Biker Scout]

I find it better to just avoid posting all the time, like I'm seeking logo or design validation from the creative community. I've not posted work in years, it seems. Yet, I still do work on nationally recognized ad campaigns. I sign NDAs and cash the check and move on to the next project. I could care less about some virtual pat on the back or a high five.

Besides, if someone where to copy any thumbnails or logo presentations I've created for client's they'd sooo get sued. That would mean that they would have had to break into my office to get my sketches. I'm not posting random stuff on online portfolios and logo mills to "get new clients"

I learned the hard lesson a long time ago... The best way to get your stuff copied, is to file a patent for it. Or in this case, showcase your talents and various works so that someone may come along and "borrow some creative inspiration to work off of." Not gonna happen.

 

[John Butto]

two (2) things

This quote relates to this post:

There is probably more truth than we care to admit in William Faulkner’s observation that, “immature artists copy, great artists steal.” Knowing what and when to steal is very much a part of the designer’s self-education.

Then reading an article how Apple taught design to new employees when Steve Jobs ran the company. This is Pablo Picasso's lithos and how they use to show how he took a detailed drawing and simplified it down. Steve Jobs said in the article that Pablo also said that very same thing as Faulkner, and who knows if he stole it from him.

​

 

[Joe Diaz]

I always thought that one was funny. I'm not sure what is more ironic that Jobs would use that quote after suing Microsoft for copyright infringement and before suing Samsung and various other hardware and software companies, or that the origin of that quote has been attributed to various different artists, poets and inventors throughout history each of which had a slightly different interpretation of it's meaning. :Big Laugh

 

[Rick]

I always thought that one was funny. I'm not sure what is more ironic that Jobs would use that quote after suing Microsoft for copyright infringement and before suing Samsung and various other hardware and software companies, or that the origin of that quote has been attributed to various different artists, poets and inventors throughout history each of which had a slightly different interpretation of it's meaning. :Big Laugh

That one designer I posted about, I thing her colleague tried to pull the "stealing" thing...

Yeah, Faulkner ripped it off too... (well, creatively translated it)
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/

 

[David Wright]

The pros of posting there or here is that you get reviewed by talented professionals. The con is that you also get reviewed by talentless people who just jump on the prevailing bandwagon. Rarely do you see an actual intelligent opinion or discussion that results in improving your design or talent level.

And yes, it's probably a good way to get your work stolen but that's unfortunately become an unavoidable part of the industry. There is a local tire company with a logo design that was BLATANTLY copied from a dribble post. Nothing had been changed but the name, same colors, fonts, design, everything. A friend of mine notified the original designer....he didn't care.

Speaking of stolen logo designs I saw this the other day....

Um, Pat, the eyes are different.

 

[David Wright]

be careful coming down bob

I think I will copy that cartoon.

 

[John Butto]

guilty

I, and that pronoun is overused quite a bit on these posts, am guilty of stealing or copying someone else's artwork. Trying to be honest and not hiding about it. Do not know of the exact moment or when it happened but am quite sure it has happened at times in my lifetime. Probably goes for ideas or speaking something or a look or the way I dress or talk or think or many other human characteristics. And also sure if it has happened recently my fellow "designers" would have pointed it out. If you did see something and did not say anything, thank you.

If you are looking for analogies and quotes to get a giggle from or to go to google and do some extra reading so you could write with intelligence to prove your opinion on the subject that was bought up. How about "If there hadn't been an Elvis, there wouldn't have been the Beatles".
So Joe, to answer your first post question, maybe if you put some of your things out there you might be helping out some great designer in the future. Maybe even grow long sideburns and start wearing white jumpsuits with rhinestones, it certainly would be a better look than that french maid costume.