Backlit issues

[AGinVT]

We have been using Orajet 3850 in combination with 3M 8518 or 8520 for years and the results have been good throughout. We just ran into our first snag, (pictures below). The colors on this project are far from vibrant when lit and the inner sign supports are more visible than I would like.

I have heard of a 3 layer process involving diffusers and such, but have not looked into it because we don't do this kind of work that often and investing in 3 otherwise useless rolls is tough to justify. Especially when previous results have been good.

Anyone have an advise? Like I said, I am not familiar with the other process at all. Would applying a diffuser film to the back of these panels help at all?

 

[Gino]

I must be going blind..... I can't see any pictures..................................

 

[iPrintStuff]

I must be going blind..... I can't see any pictures..................................

maybe that’s the problem, you can only see the pictures at night time

 

[AGinVT]

Guess pictures might help.

 

[AGinVT]

maybe that’s the problem, you can only see the pictures at night time

Lol. Wise guys.

 

[Gino]

That's my name, don't wear it out......................​

They seem to be vibrant enough during daytime hours, but not at night.

For me, this would be a no-brainer. I would NOT print this. I would use die-cut translucent vinyl and give the customer something which will last 10 or more years, instead of something like this, which probably will never pop and last maybe 5 years at best and deteriorate over the short lifespan.

Also, whoever made that cabinet either made it too narrow or should've used pan faces.

 

[AGinVT]

That's my name, don't wear it out......................​

They seem to be vibrant enough during daytime hours, but not at night.

For me, this would be a no-brainer. I would NOT print this. I would use die-cut translucent vinyl and give the customer something which will last 10 or more years, instead of something like this, which probably will never pop and last maybe 5 years at best and deteriorate over the short lifespan.

Also, whoever made that cabinet either made it too narrow or should've used pan faces.

Not the answers I was looking for, but appreciated just the same. The film is listed as a 7 year film, but that doesn't help with the color issue.

 

[Devon19515]

Sometimes we print the reverse image on clear and apply subsurface to the panel to richen up the colors for internal illuminated signs.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Not the answers I was looking for, but appreciated just the same. The film is listed as a 7 year film, but that doesn't help with the color issue.

You are getting light wash out... You need to do a color white color approach so you don't affect daytime viewing. If it was always lit I would say to print double density but it appears you need a day/night approach.

 

[AGinVT]

That's my name, don't wear it out......................​

They seem to be vibrant enough during daytime hours, but not at night.

For me, this would be a no-brainer. I would NOT print this. I would use die-cut translucent vinyl and give the customer something which will last 10 or more years, instead of something like this, which probably will never pop and last maybe 5 years at best and deteriorate over the short lifespan.

Also, whoever made that cabinet either made it too narrow or should've used pan faces.

Any suggestions for a good translucent film? I have no experience with these and the colors seem like they might be a little difficult to nail.

 

[Gino]

The film might be rated 7 years, but not the ink on it, even with laminate.

3M is always a good choice or Oracal. Black is black and usually, I use regular opaque for black. The other color looks like a reddish brown of some sorts. I have 2 of them in stock as we speak. You just need to look at a color chart. It might not be dead balls on, but you'll be a lot closer than what you have currently.

 

[AGinVT]

The film might be rated 7 years, but not the ink on it, even with laminate.

3M is always a good choice or Oracal. Black is black and usually, I use regular opaque for black. The other color looks like a reddish brown of some sorts. I have 2 of them in stock as we speak. You just need to look at a color chart. It might not be dead balls on, but you'll be a lot closer than what you have currently.

The colors are a real deep brown and an orangish red. No black.

 

[AGinVT]

Sometimes we print the reverse image on clear and apply subsurface to the panel to richen up the colors for internal illuminated signs.

That's an interesting idea. We could potentially print mirrored on our 3M40C-114 clear and apply to the back? I would love to pull this existing graphic out of it's nosedive and salvage what we have if possible.

 

[Gino]

Never would've guessed that. Then, look for it in some color chart books or get a PMS color number from the customer and have some distributors match it. Sometimes, you hafta do some legwork to get a job finished properly.

 

[MikePro]

dual-layer printing is the new standard. plenty of threads on this forum explaining it.
Trying to double-strike ink in a single layer makes daytime viewing dark/muddy, and single-layer print will wash-out when illuminated.

color>white diffuser>color>lightsource for proper day/night presentation. There's printers out there that can do this in one-go, but we're still currently making a sandwich of white trans. print laminated onto clear print applied to substrate, or front/back clear prints on white trans. substrate.

 

[AGinVT]

dual-layer printing is the new standard. plenty of threads on this forum explaining it.
Trying to double-strike ink in a single layer makes daytime viewing dark/muddy, and single-layer print will wash-out when illuminated.

color>white diffuser>color>lightsource for proper day/night presentation. There's printers out there that can do this in one-go, but we're still currently making a sandwich of white trans. print laminated onto clear print applied to substrate, or front/back clear prints on white trans. substrate.

Thanks. This is more like what I have been hearing about. I will have to find those threads.

 

[Signature Graphix]

When I have to print Translucent, I crank my ink saturation up to 200% and it works fine for me.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I would explain to the client that the best way to produce this would be in die cut translucent film, have them pick the colours from the swatch book, explain that the end product will look better and last way longer.

If you want to print this, print on white translucent, mount to the face, then print the image again in reverse on clear and mount to the second surface, this will look better than what you have now, but won't last as long as the die cut film.

 

[Rocco G]

I don't have a printer and only buy digital prints and can't comment on the printing issues, though I'd do this in cut vinyl. This chain has been around long enough that they should have vinyl specs. Sometimes these are custom colors that are EXPENSIVE and you have to buy full rolls. I'm doing a bank project and the required color is a tenth of a shade off of a std. green. They insist we use their #M special order color and IIRC it was ~$1450 for a 48" x 50 yard roll. We had enough signs to make that worth it and will use the whole roll. if it's standard translucent colors (most likely), that's probably the best way to go.

For the dark spots, the sign was probably never made deep enough. It's clear that the poles are throwing shadows. Painting them white will perhaps help but you can't be held responsible for how an existing sign lights. Is this sign lit with led's or florescents? If LED you can perhaps add more. If lamps, you would have to do a conversion to LED's but even then you may get dark spots. From the pic it looks like the economy Signcomp extrusion and the maker probably got the cheapest (thinnest) version. A light diffuser film (applied to the inside) may help but you are trying to fix something that you aren't really responsible for with those dark spots. Fellers usually has films in cut yardage available but you have to check what they stock.

Good Luck!

 

[AGinVT]

I don't have a printer and only buy digital prints and can't comment on the printing issues, though I'd do this in cut vinyl. This chain has been around long enough that they should have vinyl specs. Sometimes these are custom colors that are EXPENSIVE and you have to buy full rolls. I'm doing a bank project and the required color is a tenth of a shade off of a std. green. They insist we use their #M special order color and IIRC it was ~$1450 for a 48" x 50 yard roll. We had enough signs to make that worth it and will use the whole roll. if it's standard translucent colors (most likely), that's probably the best way to go.

For the dark spots, the sign was probably never made deep enough. It's clear that the poles are throwing shadows. Painting them white will perhaps help but you can't be held responsible for how an existing sign lights. Is this sign lit with led's or florescents? If LED you can perhaps add more. If lamps, you would have to do a conversion to LED's but even then you may get dark spots. From the pic it looks like the economy Signcomp extrusion and the maker probably got the cheapest (thinnest) version. A light diffuser film (applied to the inside) may help but you are trying to fix something that you aren't really responsible for with those dark spots. Fellers usually has films in cut yardage available but you have to check what they stock.

Good Luck!

Thank you for the tips. Unfortunately, the colors are custom and the smallest dimension is 58". As for the posts, I have heard that painting the post white or even reflective white, may help with the shadowing. I'm going to do a little test with some white reflective vinyl to see if it helps.