Cabinet Sign Hardware Question

[Black Star]

We had a big storm the other day and this sign got blown out of the cabinet. The bottom cabinet doesn't have a lip to hold a sign in. The sign that fell out looks like it had "mounting material" glued to the acrylic and then it slipped over the cabinet and was screwed in. I'm sorry as I know I am not calling these things by their actual names. Can someone help me figure out the material I need to replace this sign? I'm not familiar with how the acrylic mounts to the sign.

 

[Gino]

Do you think it was new or a retrofit, that went bad ??

 

[Black Star]

Do you think it was new or a retrofit, that went bad ??

I didn't go to the location to take a closer look. If I had to guess, it looks like the plastic that was glued to the acrylic failed by cracking and falling apart. I only see remnants that were glued on the back of the acrylic. The sign has been up for 20+ years.

 

[Gino]

Personally, I totally dislike fixing someone else's problems, especially when they wanna get out of it cheaply. I'd tell them they need to start over with a new cabinet, face and innards. Otherwise, it's never gonna end. Tht's why it fell apart this time. The customer is most likely a cheap pr!ck.

 

[Bobby H]

We had a big storm the other day and this sign got blown out of the cabinet. The bottom cabinet doesn't have a lip to hold a sign in. The sign that fell out looks like it had "mounting material" glued to the acrylic and then it slipped over the cabinet and was screwed in. I'm sorry as I know I am not calling these things by their actual names. Can someone help me figure out the material I need to replace this sign? I'm not familiar with how the acrylic mounts to the sign.

If the bottom cabinet doesn't have a retainer similar to traditional sign cabinets it's likely the face was attached to the cabinet using channel letter trim cap material. At least that's what it sounds like.

At any rate, if you're going to replace the damaged sign face you'll have to go to the site and do an accurate survey of the cabinet in order to be able to create anything that's going to fit the existing can accurately.

 

[Black Star]

Personally, I totally dislike fixing someone else's problems, especially when they wanna get out of it cheaply. I'd tell them they need to start over with a new cabinet, face and innards. Otherwise, it's never gonna end. Tht's why it fell apart this time. The customer is most likely a cheap pr!ck.

The customer is really nice. I don't think they are cheap but they can't wait months to get a new sign cabinet so we are trying to fix this as best we can for now. This couple bought the business about 3 years ago and I know their rent is insane. They don't own the building nor do they own the sign. I guess they should talk to the owner of the building about this but I know their neighbors in the same area have had some major issues their with signs and the owner not taking care of it. They've had a crooked banner hanging up for 6 months now.

 

[Gino]

I was just talking about this very type of scenario over the weekend with someone. Has nothing to do with someone being nice or mean, just cheap or willing to pony up and do it right. Emotions cannot be a part of the equation. Things either are or they are not. The time it takes for you to go there, get measurements, make a new sign and hang it will be far less than several trips back & forth to make sure everything is done right and securely. After you 'fix' their sign, you will be responsible for it, should a 20 year old sign fail in some other capacity. Ya hafta replace the fixtures and you should put LEDs back in it. Til you do all that on site, it would be far better to start over and get it all 100% right right off the bat.

Why would it take months to replace the sign ?? Maybe 4 or 5 weeks, but that isn't bad. Put a banner up temporarily, if need be.

 

[Billct2]

New acrylic face with jewelite trim cap glued to it with resin bond. Easy fix but not cheap if you don't have a cut off of acrylic the right size, or some jewelite or resin bond.
You'll have to buy a full sheet of acrylic, a full roll of jewelite and some resin bond.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

jewelite trim cap

 

[Black Star]

I was just talking about this very type of scenario over the weekend with someone. Has nothing to do with someone being nice or mean, just cheap or willing to pony up and do it right. Emotions cannot be a part of the equation. Things either are or they are not. The time it takes for you to go there, get measurements, make a new sign and hang it will be far less than several trips back & forth to make sure everything is done right and securely. After you 'fix' their sign, you will be responsible for it, should a 20 year old sign fail in some other capacity. Ya hafta replace the fixtures and you should put LEDs back in it. Til you do all that on site, it would be far better to start over and get it all 100% right right off the bat.

Why would it take months to replace the sign ?? Maybe 4 or 5 weeks, but that isn't bad. Put a banner up temporarily, if need be.

I am making a new face that the customer can figure out how to install it. I was trying to gather information to share with him and I've always wondered how these kinds of signs were put together as I've never had the pleasure of working with these. I'm not making trips back and forth and I'm not installing the sign so no liability on me. The customer understands that this is a temporary fix and it is up to them to figure the rest out. Banners are illegal in our city. I agree wholeheartedly about having things done right the first time but I have plenty of other things to keep me busy so if this is how this customer wants to proceed, it is their decision.

 

[Black Star]

Yeah, it's called trimcap, gemini sells it along with most distributors. You'll also need some channelbond (and a glue bottle) to glue it to the polycarbonate, I wouldn't use weldon at all. Best case scenario you piece the face together and trace it onto plastic, then jigsaw it out. Worst case you do a rubbing of it.

Thank you to all the responses! I've always wondered how these were put together. I wasn't sure what this was called until seeing these posts.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Trimcap gets brittle over time and it breaks off easier on large boxes like that pill. It's less likely to happen to channel letters because they usually fit snug on the returns. No need for a new cabinet or lighting, just get good measurements (pattern probably isn't even necessary on a simple shape like that, or at least pattern the ends.

 

[ProSignTN]

I would use cardboard to get end radius and simple height & width for pattern. Trim cap on acrylic is a tried and true method that's been used for channel letters for at least my 35 years of making signs. Noticed the face appears to be at least 10', if not 12' long. You should be able to find 4' x 10' sheet, but if it's 12' you'll have to splice it. Glue pieces of clear behind each side. Stagger the pieces so that when pushed together they lace together like the fingers on your hand. A strip of HP vinyl on the front side to cover the seam. Or glue one clear piece on back of both panels.

 

[Scotchbrite]

I'm surprised trim cap hasn't been improved upon. In my experience it's the first part of a channel letter sign to fail.

We have trouble with wholesale manufacturers not putting enough screws in faces like that. We also have to re-glue the faces frequently.

You could make the new face with 2" trim cap for a little better durability.

 

[Gino]

Just about every recommendation here is a sound one..... for someone with experience and knows what they're doing. My suggestions were based upon the knowledge the OP set forth. Simply making a face with the rounded ends and not making any trips to the location sounds foolish. If you are as busy as you say you are, you should be contacting someone close to this location to do the work properly and in one fell swoop. The customer isn't licensed to fix this sign. What'll happen if he gerry rigs it and it falls down and actually hurts someone. How will it look in court when he says the guy said I was on my own for installation ??

 

[Black Star]

Just about every recommendation here is a sound one..... for someone with experience and knows what they're doing. My suggestions were based upon the knowledge the OP set forth. Simply making a face with the rounded ends and not making any trips to the location sounds foolish. If you are as busy as you say you are, you should be contacting someone close to this location to do the work properly and in one fell swoop. The customer isn't licensed to fix this sign. What'll happen if he gerry rigs it and it falls down and actually hurts someone. How will it look in court when he says the guy said I was on my own for installation ??

It will be exactly that, "the guy said I was on my own for installation". I have it in writing and it was the terms that both of us agreed upon.

As for, "The customer isn't licensed to fix this sign", this isn't true. In Washington State, an individual is allowed to install their own signage on their business front as long as their landlord gave them permission, if they don't own the building. I've spent hours on the phone and through email discussing this situation with Washington State Labor & Industries and can 100% assure you that he has every right to install his own sign. He can not pay an unlicensed individual or company to do the install but the business owner is allowed to install their own sign without being a licensed contractor. I know this is different from state to state so maybe that's why you are confused.

 

[Scotchbrite]

It will be exactly that, "the guy said I was on my own for installation". I have it in writing and it was the terms that both of us agreed upon.

As for, "The customer isn't licensed to fix this sign", this isn't true. In Washington State, an individual is allowed to install their own signage on their business front as long as their landlord gave them permission, if they don't own the building. I've spent hours on the phone and through email discussing this situation with Washington State Labor & Industries and can 100% assure you that he has every right to install his own sign. He can not pay an unlicensed individual or company to do the install but the business owner is allowed to install their own sign without being a licensed contractor. I know this is different from state to state so maybe that's why you are confused.

That's true here too, but they still have to get a permit and have the applicable inspections done. We've had to fix a few owner installed screwups.