Check the Price of ACM before you bid

[Texas_Signmaker]

Just sold a bunch of 4x8's and went to order a bundle of 10 panels only to notice the price jumped about 20%. ... and no more quantity discounts from NGlantz I guess.

Just a reminder to check prices of your staples before jumping in...

 

[Billct2]

Yep, prices have gone up more in the last two years than I can remember in quite a while.

 

[Solventinkjet]

It's almost like all aluminum coming into this country is 10% more expensive for no real reason. Weird.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

It's almost like all aluminum coming into this country is 10% more expensive for no real reason. Weird.

This post is winning.

 

[dale911]

I received emails about price hikes coming Last year a few times. I saw two price jumps on the same product last year as a result of the tariffs with China. What’s interesting is that we sell the majority of our recycled aluminum to China, then they process it and remanufacture it and sell it back to us. They get hit with a tariff on it coming in and we get hit with one when it comes back. Guess we have to find some way to keep paying for the increasing size of the debt that the geniuses in the government want

 

[Johnny Best]

Grimco had a sale on Maxmetal and Alumicore during Christmas break so I loaded up on extra panels because I do not see the prices dropping anytime soon.
If you tell your customer that there is a price increase for their signage because of the aluminum tariffs they will understand because everyone has heard about it.

 

[bowtievega]

What bothers me is as the price of import aluminum keeps going up due to the tariffs it was supposed to make domestic aluminum more competitive right? But they keep increasing the cost of domestic material along with the imports so its always way more than import even with tariffs.

 

[Big Rice Field]

I received emails about price hikes coming Last year a few times. I saw two price jumps on the same product last year as a result of the tariffs with China. What’s interesting is that we sell the majority of our recycled aluminum to China, then they process it and remanufacture it and sell it back to us. They get hit with a tariff on it coming in and we get hit with one when it comes back. Guess we have to find some way to keep paying for the increasing size of the debt that the geniuses in the government want

Tarriffs never work. Andrew Jackson learned the hard way. Way back in the 1840s.

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

Grimco had a sale on Maxmetal and Alumicore during Christmas break so I loaded up on extra panels because I do not see the prices dropping anytime soon.
If you tell your customer that there is a price increase for their signage because of the aluminum tariffs they will understand because everyone has heard about it.

I always like when they come back with the "not that much aluminum" on an ACM panel argument.

 

[rossmosh]

1. The price increase is not 100% down to the tariffs. Just like when gas prices went up, people took it as an opportunity to raise prices. One of the benefits of capitalism is the competition keeps the prices relatively even, more than competitive. If one company increases their prices by 10%, another company so now you get a chance to increase your prices anywhere from 9-12% and you remain competitive.

2. Tariffs in theory work but only when you act early. If you rewind to the 1970's when American steel started to die off due to outsourcing, and you implement the tariffs at that moment, you can keep American steel alive and prosperous. You're taking the incentive out of buying from another country. Now, it's hard to see the tariffs benefiting anyone really. The infrastructure to process raw metal is long gone in the US. It would cost billions to bring it back. No one is investing billions in that industry when they know in 2-6 years a new President will come in with a different agenda. The worst part of this whole situation is from what I've read, this isn't helping American made products either. They rely on the global economy just like everyone else. So it's screwing up their business and they're the ones that are supposed to ultimately benefit from this.

 

[unclebun]

I always like when they come back with the "not that much aluminum" on an ACM panel argument.

The argument is actually valid. The suppliers use the tariff as an excuse to jump their prices by far more than the price increase of the raw material.

 

[Patentagosse]

Not so "off topic" but here's a comparison. We cut wood in Canada (i.e. BC), the logs travel to US tax free, you process 'em, ship 'em back to our country and we have to pay import taxes and other fees over the cost of processing... Yes, we are that much idiot... Like if we can do it by ourself and keep jobs / incomes locally. Your Genius started a fight with everyone else around and "tariff" everything but you've got screwed up too.

*Just to make it clear, I'm not looking to start a fight or go into political because as you can see I don't master the language nor all the details of Free-Trade and other agreements but from what I've heard or read, I'm just realizing our respective governments are passing the bill on us and the end users for their bad managing. Only the rich get richer

 

[DerbyCitySignGuy]

The argument is actually valid. The suppliers use the tariff as an excuse to jump their prices by far more than the price increase of the raw material.

That's something for us to deal with. Not customers. If you pay 10% more for your ACM, pass it along. If your supplier is trying to charge you 50% more for ACM "because of tariffs" you need to talk to them.

 

[Reveal1]

They say all politics is local; we cheer or moan about the immediate effects of short term political policy that affects us personally in the moment. Which is why it's so easy for politicians to buy votes with short term favors or symbolic policies. But our problems are long-term such as the decline of American industry trying to compete with countries that subsidize their industry with cheap labor, little environmental regulation, theft of intellectual property and unfair trade practices. I for one will happily pay and pass on higher prices if it contributes to a stronger US aluminum industry long-term through policies that address the policies of foreign governments that make the the playing field so one-sided in their favor.

This is a topic of special interest in my area (Southeast Missouri). Fact is there are only 7 aluminum smelter left in the U.S. Check out the history of Noranda aluminum in New Madrid, Missouri which filed for bankruptcy in 2016 . The reasons were many but primarily the inability to compete with China and a host of related bad decisions in the struggle to keep it open, poor management, lack of investment. The final blow was government policy that created energy rates (electricity the highest cost in producing aluminum ) too high to compete. Interestingly, the only US smelter to to go on line in recent history is the same New Madrid smelter reopened last year under new ownership after a new governor worked with the state legislature to allow large users of electricity to negotiate for lower rates, bringing back 400 of the 900 lost jobs.

 

[unclebun]

Another plant nearby is the US Steel mill in Granite City, IL that reopened this year.

 

[ikarasu]

I don't get trying to save outdated jobs.

The world's moving to automation. More and more self checkout stands than emoyees... Lyft and Uber are pushing the taxi industry out.. We didn't stop auto manufacturers from producing cars to save the horse and carriage jobs, did we?

A more relatable one... All signs used to be hand painted. It's fun to reminisce on it... But can we honestly say we're not better off with digital printers and plotters? Should we have put huge tarrifs on Japanese graphtecs in order to save hand painters jobs?

If another country can supply something for cheaper... Let them and focus on other exports / products. It doesnt make sense to put huge tarrifs on products and make everyone pay a tax on aluminum, to save a couple hundred jobs... Better to retrain and focus on a different venue.

It's all moot anyways. In 20-30 years 99% of jobs will be automated. Humans jobs will be to Maintain machines and do the odd job a robot can't do. That's what we should,be focusing on fixing... It's inevitable and will happen, and so far there's no plan on how to fix it besides a few guaranteed min income trials going on in Canada.

 

[TimToad]

Just checked our supplier and a 4'x8' sheet of 5 year ACM has gone up less than $6 per sheet over the last two years time.

 

[SignosaurusRex]

It's all in the cost of doing business. Customers know this and are willing to pay. If one losses a customer over a few dollars and they can't comprehend that fact, you don't want them as a customer for the long haul. If you can't stand to lose a customer like that, you can't stand being in biz for long.

 

[rossmosh]

I don't get trying to save outdated jobs.

The world's moving to automation. More and more self checkout stands than emoyees... Lyft and Uber are pushing the taxi industry out.. We didn't stop auto manufacturers from producing cars to save the horse and carriage jobs, did we?

A more relatable one... All signs used to be hand painted. It's fun to reminisce on it... But can we honestly say we're not better off with digital printers and plotters? Should we have put huge tarrifs on Japanese graphtecs in order to save hand painters jobs?

If another country can supply something for cheaper... Let them and focus on other exports / products. It doesnt make sense to put huge tarrifs on products and make everyone pay a tax on aluminum, to save a couple hundred jobs... Better to retrain and focus on a different venue.

It's all moot anyways. In 20-30 years 99% of jobs will be automated. Humans jobs will be to Maintain machines and do the odd job a robot can't do. That's what we should,be focusing on fixing... It's inevitable and will happen, and so far there's no plan on how to fix it besides a few guaranteed min income trials going on in Canada.

You're adding an additional complexity on the subject when adding automation into the discussion.

With aluminum/steel it's really not about automation. We had several things happening at once. Some of the main reasons that those industries died over time were labor costs, regulations (mostly environmental but some OSHA stuff), and an expanding global economy. The Chinese gov't stepped in and said "we want to get into this industry. Here's unlimited funds. Go do it." That's an unreal advantage over what was going on in America.

The US population fell asleep on this one. They just said "screw it, send all this work overseas. We're going to save bundles!" They didn't think of the long term effect. They didn't think about how China is a world power because the US funded it. They didn't think about destroying the working class of America. They didn't think about how China didn't care about workers conditions or the environment. They just cared about saving money. We've failed at being a responsible capitalist society. Big picture, we've adapted a far more sociopathic capitalistic society. Profits above everything else has not benefited the American population.

Working it back to automation, within the next 50 years, we'll likely have the technology to implement a lot of really efficient automation. The question will be: Are we better off because of it? If you have a plant full of robots replacing 500 employees and you just have 50 support staff, unless you have jobs for those other 450 people, you're likely not making a good choice. It's going to be a similar situation to the "should we outsource or keep making in America?" question we faced in the 70's. There is no clear answer one way or another, but there is a general consensus that the majority of Americans aren't happy with the end result of that decision. Approximately 40% of the population want to rewind the clocks to a time where the American worker was valued and had a job and career that allowed them to provide reasonably well for their family. The "other" 40% of the population doesn't want to rewind the clock, but is equally dissatisfied with the end result as they believe while outsourcing may not be a bad thing, we did not do it responsibly so that the working class can also benefit from the massive savings the ultra wealthy and major corporations have. Essentially 80% of the population agrees that we screwed it up, but sadly we can't agree on much after that.

 

[Michael-Nola]

I'm no fan of tarrifs, I know who pays the final bill. However, we can't all be short sighted by focusing on the cost of one product or one industry. Ultimately, private American companies are losing a vast amount of sales opportunity to China and the world due to their aggressive sales tactics, denial of imported American goods, and UN violations of copyright law.

Yes the tarrifs are bad, but sometimes you accept the lesser of two evils. In America's case, our politicans have recently just been too cowardly or too paid-off to do anything about it.

We even see problems in our own industry. Chinese printers and software completely ripping off copyrighted designs without any respect to international agreements on patent law. Eventually that is going to hurt us here too.