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Chrome?

A

AwardImage

New Member
I have a customer, that really likes the look of mirror graphics and wants to letter ~25% of a 200 truck fleet with chrome material.

I need the job, but my supplier (sells Avery and Oracal + a few specialty) says its a bad plan. Suggested Oracal 351? that has a 2 year exterior life.

Do you folks know of a better chrome with longer exterior life?

Thank you!
 
TyrantDesigner

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
no such thing. will always be a 2 year vinyl. it's a polyester vinyl, not pvc and is rigid and brittle. will look good for 6 months outside then start developing white spots and burnishing.

inform the customer, if they still want it done, make them sign something to the effect that they are getting a low life vinyl with the date and install.

it is after all what they want ... your job is to set expectations, and let them decide if it is worth a 2 year investment as opposed to 5-10 years for regular cast vinyls.
 
TyrantDesigner

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
oh, and expect to go through blades like crazy ... 200 trucks ... probably expect about 5-10 blades to eat it with dullness.
 
T

truckgraphics

New Member
Since you brought it up, I am kind of curious to know how the McLaren Formula One cars - and a few other race cars I've seen - manage to get a chrome finish over a carbon fiber body. Do they print it on cast vinyl? Use 3M or similar cast in metallic silver? (Don't think that would be shiny enough.) I am sure a chrome wrap is super expensive and doesn't have to last as long as on a truck (unless it goes in a museum) but there must be a way to wrap in chrome (unless you can electroplate carbon fiber ?) Or is it chrome paint?

And - keeping on topic - the answer could shed some light on the question as to how to provide long life chrome lettering.

Finally - back fully on topic - you might consider overlaminating the chrome with a clear cast material to make it last longer. (Don't guarantee it!)
 
B

BBworks

New Member
We dont recommend chrome or other mylars for out door use, Canadian winters tarnish or even rust the finishes.
3M 1080 series vinyls have some decent metal finishes and Avery Supreme Wrapping Films also come in a variety of metalic finishes.
 
d fleming

d fleming

New Member
Have a few customers that just gotta have it. Been using vinyl EFX 3010ss from Fellers. Seems to last pretty well for chrome.
 
CS-SignSupply-TT

CS-SignSupply-TT

New Member
Exterior mirror chrome!?!?!

AwardImage said:
I have a customer, that really likes the look of mirror graphics and wants to letter ~25% of a 200 truck fleet with chrome material.

I need the job, but my supplier (sells Avery and Oracal + a few specialty) says its a bad plan. Suggested Oracal 351? that has a 2 year exterior life.

Do you folks know of a better chrome with longer exterior life?

Thank you!
Click to expand...

I DO! I DO! I can get you samples, sizes, pricing, and availability to you. Here is the web link

http://fdcfilms.com/index.php?p=products&pid=&sid=234&sub=1

http://fdcfilms.com/series_docs/RTape VinylEfx Durable 022012.pdf
 
crystalcoastgraphics

crystalcoastgraphics

New Member
Avery also has a new wrapping chrome that they showed off at the ISA show last month in Orlando. It is comformable and has a lot longer outdoor life than typical polyester chrome. Not sure of the price point, but they said it is just as comformable as there wrap vinyls. It should have been released already.
 
natedawg9640

natedawg9640

New Member
TyrantDesigner said:
no such thing. will always be a 2 year vinyl. it's a polyester vinyl, not pvc and is rigid and brittle. will look good for 6 months outside then start developing white spots and burnishing.

inform the customer, if they still want it done, make them sign something to the effect that they are getting a low life vinyl with the date and install.

it is after all what they want ... your job is to set expectations, and let them decide if it is worth a 2 year investment as opposed to 5-10 years for regular cast vinyls.
Click to expand...


That's incorrect.

look at "Convex Chrome high bond PSA" available through graphic marking systems. I won't lie, it's expensive, but its a high quality cast vinyl and WAY better looking that the metalized crap avery and universal sell.

It's the closest thing to the extinct 210 deluxe that gerber had.
 
SightLine

SightLine

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I got an email about the new Avery chrome just this morning. The attached pdf shows suggested pricing, etc. Not sure what the distributors will actually be charging yet though.
 

Attachments

  • ChromeFINAL1A.pdf
    1 MB · Views: 459
Patentagosse

Patentagosse

New Member
I haven't seen it right before my eyes but my Avery dealer has the chrome in stock. Prettttttttttttty expensive though. Probably a better film than any cheap polyester on the market but still not sure I would do a fleet job (even more of that size) with chrome. Your customer will probably thank you in few months / years for the discouraging him...

Testimonial: We have a big local fleet that started with dk. green tractors - trailers few years ago and the company grew up rapidly to over hundred of units. They were made with gold metallic graphics (cast) which were covered by Avery with a 3 years warranty and they barely can stand this 3 years mark. They all looked "destroyed / faded" way before the life span of the units. They traveled from cold eastern-canadian region to California every weeks, putting a lot of miles on the meter in a short time. After observing the quick degradation of the vinyl, this year they decided to get white units. Sure, it breaks down their "identity" on the road but they'll probably get much more in return with better looking "representatives" throughout US.

Oh, BTW, 'hope you're not dealing with rivets otherwise it's something to forget from the start (new Avery's is supposed to "conform" but eh-eh... we already heard that one before)
 
TyrantDesigner

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
Seriously guys, are you actually saying use the material that will cost over 10 times every other chrome cost (and the customers) cost just to look cool.

For the life they 'expect' from that chrome wrapping cast ... not worth the money for cut graphics. ... wrapped vehicles and accent graphics, sure.

Sorry, cost just won't be worth it on 200+ vehicles ... especially at what ... $35-$55 a sq foot for material cost alone? ... pft, you can save your '5 year' wrapping cast if that is the case.
 
Mosh

Mosh

New Member
I just make fun of customers who want chrome so much they 1) follow my advise and use proper materials or 2) get the F@# out of my shop. I would not wipe my rear with chrome vinyl. If you use chrome on anything other than a crap...race cars you care more about money that making quality signs. Sorry but prove me wrong....WAIT YOU CAN'T!!!!
 
Mosh

Mosh

New Member
how are some of you still in business?
Click to expand...

By NOT being stupid!!! Been doing this since 1988 and CHROME SUCKS!!!!
What were you doing in 1988?

Chrome has it's place, but WILL NOT LAST OUTDOORS!!!
 
natedawg9640

natedawg9640

New Member
i dont disagree that metalized polyester or pvc will soon fail... i hate that crap and also try my hardest to avoid it, but a VINYL based chrome will do far better than you make it sound. I use it almost every day.

in 1988... i was likely crapping my pants.
 
TyrantDesigner

TyrantDesigner

Art! Hot and fresh.
natedawg9640 said:
how are some of you still in business?

http://www.shopgms.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=CCHB1510S

you should at least be familiar with available products.

This is 7 year vinyl not pvc or polyester. it says laminate it, which i agree with... but from my experience with 210 deluxe when that was still around, this stuff seems a little less susceptible to scratching.
Click to expand...

So ... dude asked if there was something other than a 2 year chrome and silly me, I assumed he was asking about cut vinyl for a customer that wanted 'sick' graphics. I've used convex before, great material, but needs to be laminated or it scratches and burnishes just as badly as polyester chrome. sorry, still not worth the money with a 200+ vehicle lineup. so far that one is only 4.5 times more expensive than regular chrome ... so lets just do the math ... 7 year vinyl, cut down dollar for dollar ... you can replace the graphics for the same cost and get 9 years worth of materials out of the same customer ... plus install and removal if you just tell them it's just a 2 year vinyl. convex is a fail in that case.


If his customer is anything like mine, and he says something along the lines of "WELL ... I can cut you some graphics that will only cost X for the materials and only lasts 2 years but will be a decent 2 years ... or I can cut you something that is (4.5 times X) and lasts 7" ... i almost gaurentee you he will sell the 2 year first. ... he might get the look from the customer that almost directly will translate to "I must have just smelled a ****, because that price stinks"
 
A

AwardImage

New Member
Update.
@the sale
I told the customer that "there was no real option to the chrome problem and don't recommend using it and I wouldn't guarantee the look for more than 3 months" just to emphasize that it was a crap product.
His reply, "I have 9 year old trucks with chrome decals". I felt stupid/betrayed at that point.
I checked with you guys, I called the 5 vendors on my list, I called 5 other referral and google vendors... how could this be?
It wasn't true. I took a sample of my chrome and a sample of my white. His decals were totally milked, when compared side by side. They were closer to my white than my chrome. He said he didn't give a ****.

So the question that I have now is, will the 351 Orafol cling to a door for 8 years?

**Customers input** I don't want to derail the topic, but the customer's crew has done hundreds of vehicle decal applications.
When I carried my samples out to his truckyard, he told his garage boss to bring some ether and clean rags. I saw Deliverance, so I kept my eye on everyone lol. They sprayed the ether over the application area and wiped it with the "clean rags"... it didn't hurt the application.
Ether deserves another topic.

@How are you still in business?
It's rarely been perfect, but I've delivered consistently.
My cadcut background is in uniform names. And if they haven't been burned, mothed or recycled, my craftwork is still serving its function decades after its creation be it on a humans back or in a drawer... over 50K jerseys.
I thank you and everyone who participates on this forum, thank you.
I don't know about cadcut where a the application media is an $85K truck. In a previous life, my company's decorations were worth more than the garment price, unless it was UnderArmour or Nike.
I know about Stahls and Liebe and Gerber... ad infinitem x 20.
I don't know about lettering trucks.
Thank you for helping.
 
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