Need Help Correcting color and keeping things consistent.

[Jharris81]

So not sure if this is the right place to put this question.

Soft the longest time I have been dealing with getting good grays out of my xc-540 and have posted a few times on here about it. Well after a long time I have been able to get a decent grey color out of my printer and a relatively happy with it by adjusting the color curve to get what is a good color all around. Well yesterday I decided to print a Roland color chart directly from versawerks just to have a new one and make sure everything is how it should be. Well it does not let you add the corrected color curve or icc profile to the color chart or I am just missing something. I guess I can see why they would do that but then how are you suppose to get a good color representation if the color chart isn't corrected for your printer variations.

Since I bought the printer my greys have always been very green and the only way I have been able to correct that is with adjusting the color curve. I there something that I am missing that I should have done when I bought that machine? Should I have factory reset it, is there adjustments in the actual printer that would hold an old icc profile of some sort that would need to be cleared out or what. How would I return to a corrected baseline for my prints without having to make sure that I have to have an adjusted color curve or custom icc profile just to have a printer that prints correctly. I get have an icc profile or minor adjustments just for slight visual appeal or whatever but having that machine be way off just doesn't make sense.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Stacey K]

Probably the easiest way to correct it is to print out the pantone color chart or whatever chart it is you use in your program and use the grays you printed out that you like best. Mine are printed so the boxes are about 1" and I cut it apart and binder clip it. That way, I can take it with me or put it next to a car or truck, etc. to match colors. Also, when I get a good rgb or whatever other color that prints nice, I save it in my color swatch and name it after the customer "Pigeon River Blue" "Graphix Green" etc. I tend to use the same few colors a lot for all my jobs. Gray is a hard color to hit correctly so these charts make it easier.


.

 

[Jharris81]

Probably the easiest way to correct it is to print out the pantone color chart or whatever chart it is you use in your program and use the grays you printed out that you like best. Mine are printed so the boxes are about 1" and I cut it apart and binder clip it. That way, I can take it with me or put it next to a car or truck, etc. to match colors. Also, when I get a good rgb or whatever other color that prints nice, I save it in my color swatch and name it after the customer "Pigeon River Blue" "Graphix Green" etc. I tend to use the same few colors a lot for all my jobs. Gray is a hard color to hit correctly so these charts make it easier.


. View attachment 178927

I get that I can print out colors charts and use a color that matches but my thing is that if I am printing a Roland spot color chart from my printer that I know is printing grays with a green hue how am I suppose to use that color chart if I can't add a icc profile chart to the print to correct for my printer. I feel like I am adjusting all these different thing, icc profiles, color swatches, monitor color, color curves, to try and adjust for a printer that at default, or attest what I think is default does not print correctly. Kinda that whole saying that a house is only as good as its foundation.

Maybe I am going about this or looking at this all wrong.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Color correction is probably the most misunderstood and underutilized aspect of the sign printing industry in my opinion. Especially for smaller shops who see the upfront costs in the 1000s of dollars and decide to rough it instead. The answer to your question is basically, you need to make your own color profiles and linearize your printhead output. Short of that, you're stuck doing it the way you are now which , as you know, is a PITA.

When a printer is not “linearized,” it doesn’t lay down the amount of ink you think it is. For example, you might tell it to print 50% magenta, but the head may only put out the equivalent of 38% magenta. That means the printer isn’t actually following your instructions, and the colors you get on paper won’t match what your file says.

Linearization is the process of correcting that. You print a chart of swatches from 10% up to 100% for each color, then measure them with a spectrophotometer (a tool that reads printed colors). The software compares the intended value (like “50% magenta”) with the actual result and adjusts the curve so they line up. After linearization, when you tell the printer to print 50%, it really does 50%.

This matters a lot for neutral colors like gray. A gray in your file might be equal amounts of CMYK (say 50% each). But if the printer is outputting uneven amounts, like C40 M55 Y48 K39 instead, your gray turns slightly green, bluish, or magenta-tinted. That’s why, without linearization, grays drift all over the place. With linearization, the printer’s densities are corrected, and grays (and everything else) come out the way they’re supposed to.

Knowing that, you might think, why not just print a percentage of black only? Which is a valid option but they tend to come out looking brownish and grainy without the other colors. You can test it out by using the color replacement tool in Versaworks, select the color you currently have as gray, and replace it with whatever percentage of black only you want to try. That will override the profile and print what you tell it to.

 

[Jharris81]

Color correction is probably the most misunderstood and underutilized aspect of the sign printing industry in my opinion. Especially for smaller shops who see the upfront costs in the 1000s of dollars and decide to rough it instead. The answer to your question is basically, you need to make your own color profiles and linearize your printhead output. Short of that, you're stuck doing it the way you are now which , as you know, is a PITA.

When a printer is not “linearized,” it doesn’t lay down the amount of ink you think it is. For example, you might tell it to print 50% magenta, but the head may only put out the equivalent of 38% magenta. That means the printer isn’t actually following your instructions, and the colors you get on paper won’t match what your file says.

Linearization is the process of correcting that. You print a chart of swatches from 10% up to 100% for each color, then measure them with a spectrophotometer (a tool that reads printed colors). The software compares the intended value (like “50% magenta”) with the actual result and adjusts the curve so they line up. After linearization, when you tell the printer to print 50%, it really does 50%.

This matters a lot for neutral colors like gray. A gray in your file might be equal amounts of CMYK (say 50% each). But if the printer is outputting uneven amounts, like C40 M55 Y48 K39 instead, your gray turns slightly green, bluish, or magenta-tinted. That’s why, without linearization, grays drift all over the place. With linearization, the printer’s densities are corrected, and grays (and everything else) come out the way they’re supposed to.

Knowing that, you might think, why not just print a percentage of black only? Which is a valid option but they tend to come out looking brownish and grainy without the other colors. You can test it out by using the color replacement tool in Versaworks, select the color you currently have as gray, and replace it with whatever percentage of black only you want to try. That will override the profile and print what you tell it to.

Just random thought about all this, I there anything that a previous owner could have changed on the printer that a factory default would help or is all of that info ran through VersaWorks. I bought the printer and just left it how it was because at that point I knew zero about wide formate printing, or printing at that.

 

[Solventinkjet]

Just random thought about all this, I there anything that a previous owner could have changed on the printer that a factory default would help or is all of that info ran through VersaWorks. I bought the printer and just left it how it was because at that point I knew zero about wide formate printing, or printing at that.

Nothing on the printer end other than the nozzle check. If you're missing nozzles, that will affect color for sure. Otherwise, color correction is handled entirely on the RIP/Computer side of things.

 

[Jharris81]

Nothing on the printer end other than the nozzle check. If you're missing nozzles, that will affect color for sure. Otherwise, color correction is handled entirely on the RIP/Computer side of things.

ok, Ill my head are new within the past year. I didn't figure there was but figured id ask. Defiantly frustrating when you just want to be able to print what you see and it doesn't work that way.

 

[Solventinkjet]

ok, Ill my head are new within the past year. I didn't figure there was but figured id ask. Defiantly frustrating when you just want to be able to print what you see and it doesn't work that way.

Absolutely and you are by far not alone. This is probably one of the most common struggles in the industry.

 

[Saturn]

Curious if anyone has good firsthand experience with an on-site or remote profiling service. Any price range.

 

[Jharris81]

I have called all around my area and no one can help with color profiling. Everyone is just fixing machines. I would like to know if some that can help with that as well

 

[P Wagner]

Mike Adams
Correct Color

Who You Gonna Call? - Correct Color

Since 2005, Correct Color has established itself as one of the worldwide leaders in on-site color management implementation for large and grand format printers. Correct Color is a complete color management solutions provider for large and grand format printers, and is the business name of...

correctcolor.org

typhoon@correctcolor.org
Phone or text: 512 468-0010

 

[netsol]

i thought color crest offered a service similar to what you are asking for, in the past.
i may be confused, or he may have given up offering the service

i am skeptical of the remote profiling, not because it isn't possible, but, because you may need to relinearize to compensate for variations in batches of ink, white point on substrates,
aging of print heads and other reasons as well.