Rant Customer Rant

[Creative Sign Guy(s)]

Good luck with that. Companies like sticker mule will just print them out 20,000 copies of the label from whatever artwork is sent, so the customer will probably end up with something unusable and not looking how they expected.

Yes, they can be good but they are cheap for a reason. They won't spend the time messing about with these sort of customers

Reading your post made me remember the owner of the copy shop I managed ~12 years ago(specifically the, "They won't spend the time messing about with these sort of customers" part).
I would get a client as you were referring to and refuse to concede to their insanity. They would always demand to talk to the manager. "Speaking", I would respond. "Then I want to talk to the owner"!
I would tell them when the owner is in the shop and encourage them to take their complaint up with him. I made sure I was there for the delivery of the complaint.
Like clockwork, as soon as the owner got the complaint he would say(in a thick Iranian accent), "GET OUT! AND DO NOT COME BACK"!
Then he would turn around and tell us, "You cannot make money off these types of people".
I miss that guy so much.
He called me Mr. Scott(my first name), so I called him Mr. Shah(his). He was a great guy and probably the best owner I ever worked for.

 

[Boudica]

Reading your post made me remember the owner of the copy shop I managed ~12 years ago(specifically the, "They won't spend the time messing about with these sort of customers" part).
I would get a client as you were referring to and refuse to concede to their insanity. They would always demand to talk to the manager. "Speaking", I would respond. "Then I want to talk to the owner"!
I would tell them when the owner is in the shop and encourage them to take their complaint up with him. I made sure I was there for the delivery of the complaint.
Like clockwork, as soon as the owner got the complaint he would say(in a thick Iranian accent), "GET OUT! AND DO NOT COME BACK"!
Then he would turn around and tell us, "You cannot make money off these types of people".
I miss that guy so much.
He called me Mr. Scott(my first name), so I called him Mr. Shah(his). He was a great guy and probably the best owner I ever worked for.

Please tell me you got him to say "NO SOUP FOR YOU"!

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Please tell me you got him to say "NO SOUP FOR YOU"!

It took a lot of restraint to not post that clip again for the 100th time

 

[Zendavor Signs]

I had a customer the other day that kept making changes, etc, with a looming deadline. I emailed her one morning and said I need to have a signed approval by first thing tomorrow morning to meet the deadline. 48 hours past the deadline, she emails me a laundry list of more changes. I reply “sorry, we can’t make the time frame”. Boy, did that get a response! She was in a complete panic. Suddenly, we had several more days time frame, and they approved immediately!

 

[AKA TRE]

I have a newer customer who sounds like the same customer you have! They switched sign shops to me because the last one would just print what they sent.

They are a cheese company and have a bunch of small labels they made into banners. The artwork consists of many smaller parts with multiple smaller jpegs. Most of them look like crap. I had a big list of new art I needed and they seemed to be frustrated with me - yet were happy I didn't go ahead and print them. I cannot tell you how many times we went back and forth. I asked her multiple times if I could just talk to the graphics person or if she could send a link to their online storage area so I could just grab what I needed. I explained the difference between jpegs and eps, etc. I was just ignored. She just kept sending crappy art back. I finally got beautiful pngs AFTER she sent the same ones with the bottoms cut off each one of them! Some of it was ordered on a Monday with a Friday deadline. A couple things had a longer deadline and it ended up extending past. The jobs got done, they looked great but holy balls...what a nightmare working with them!!!!

Sometimes you can offer help but they just don't want it. I'm not a magician, nor am I a counsellor, or a business organizer person. I charge extra but in reality, I don't make my money chasing down artwork. And I sure would rather be lettering a truck than emailing about jpegs LOL

By far the most common frustration I have is trying to explain what art file I need. "But, It's right there, I can see it on the computer screen, it looks fine."

 

[Humble PM]

By far the most common frustration I have is trying to explain what art file I need. "But, It's right there, I can see it on the computer screen, it looks fine."

Just like the picture of the "food" on the burger van

 

[Signarama Jockey]

this right here! handle your people, do not let them dictate to you their urgency and lack of action. tell them a deadline for them t get art from you and then screw um if they dont make it. Customers are ALWAYS in a hurry until its time for them to get crap together to get order out, dont make their stress and rabidness yours

This, unfortunately is a struggle that I am working with. The general attitude that my customer service people have is "Yeah, that'll be no problem!" to absolutely any schedule the customer proposes. Customers roll in with a brand new truck, ask to speak to the owner and twenty minutes later a job drops on my desk that we can do real quick because the customer needs it... and he'll wait for it. So, this means that whatever I was working on has to go on hold while I switch gears and try to put the pieces in motion to brand a truck. Just today, in fact, I was given a job that had been approved by the customer only minutes before and was told it was a rush.

Nothing that I have ever done as a sign-maker has ever been anything I would consider a "need". Closest I have seen to a "need" would be a sign for a lost pet. Most people "want", they don't "need". If this sign is that important, it was that important a week ago when you procrastinated and put it off. Now that you have a deadline, or you finally decide to "want" it, now I'm supposed to freak out.

I love what I do, and I really do want to help my customers get what they need. We bend over backwards to meet ever ridiculous, last second rush job. We do our absolute best for our customers. But, yeah, in all of the print/sign places I've worked, this has been more or less ubiquitous.

"Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."​

 

[ProSignTN]

Frick'um if they can't take a joke. You are the PROFESSIONAL. You set the parameters Tell'm to jump off.

 

[Bengt Backhaus]

This, unfortunately is a struggle that I am working with. The general attitude that my customer service people have is "Yeah, that'll be no problem!" to absolutely any schedule the customer proposes. Customers roll in with a brand new truck, ask to speak to the owner and twenty minutes later a job drops on my desk that we can do real quick because the customer needs it... and he'll wait for it. So, this means that whatever I was working on has to go on hold while I switch gears and try to put the pieces in motion to brand a truck. Just today, in fact, I was given a job that had been approved by the customer only minutes before and was told it was a rush.

Nothing that I have ever done as a sign-maker has ever been anything I would consider a "need". Closest I have seen to a "need" would be a sign for a lost pet. Most people "want", they don't "need". If this sign is that important, it was that important a week ago when you procrastinated and put it off. Now that you have a deadline, or you finally decide to "want" it, now I'm supposed to freak out.

I love what I do, and I really do want to help my customers get what they need. We bend over backwards to meet ever ridiculous, last second rush job. We do our absolute best for our customers. But, yeah, in all of the print/sign places I've worked, this has been more or less ubiquitous.

"Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."​

I had the exact same thing for almost twenty years in a big company.
Then my son in law, who lives in a small town and had referred jobs to me for years, bought equipment and hired me asa a one man graphics shop.
Now "need" always outweigh "want" and my love for my occupation has bloomed again.

 

[Eforcer]

Not sign related, but I don't have any peers to talk to about this. So a couple of months ago I had a customer reach out about doing a bunch of work through me. It was a great opportunity to have a bigger customer than I normally do and potentially open up other customer referrals for more work. They wanted to do 20k labels. I laid out what I needed from them and approximate turnaround times for the orders, asked if they planned ahead for order and they said yes. They were 3 weeks out from when they wanted these items and asked when I could expect art files and they said "oh we just started designing them today." Already not off to a good start. I ask them a few questions and get zero answers. 5 weeks pass with zero of my emails answered, with very simple questions and quantity breakdown and confirmation on a size, and then they email me saying they're just about ready to get things printed. Ok so I get their quantity breakdowns and such to give them a quote, which was ok'd. Then a week later I get more artwork than I was expecting with no explanation. At this point they need these in 2 weeks to being selling their products. I tell them again turnaround time. One person gives me missing quantities for extra files and I re-quote the job. Ready files for proofing and such, send customer proofs, and they ask about gray tints and if they'll show up properly. (ughh this should've been discussed when they sent the files)
Run a press test for color and the tints don't show up, they build their blacks and grey with 4 colors which make hitting greys sometimes can be challenging. Show them this and they send new files the next day to reprocess. At this point they are needed these a week from now. All of a sudden one person chimes in to say the extra files aren't being printed this round. (WTF seriously?!)

I've hit the end of the rope with dealing with these folks. After this job is done I will not produce anything else for them because of this whole experience. lack of planning, terrible communication and just all-round confusing with people giving me conflicting info. I want to get their job done and to them as soon as possible, but I'm so stressed out trying to keep this moving smoothly and they don't seem to understand a timeline for doing this stuff. I care about the work I put out but dealing with these folks is driving me insane because I take my work personally. Just trying to find a way to tell them, without sounding like an a$$hole, that after this I do not want to work with them because of these issues unless they can assure me it'll be smoother next time.

Thanks for listening!

IMO I would do everything possible to stay away from these companies. Sure you can make $$$$$$, but at what expense? I've been in the printing business since 76'. I get great pleasure in firing or bypassing these firms. Some have too many chiefs, not enough good help. In the long run they will break you. Once they are thru with you, they go on to the next. I know I can have labels done in 4-5 business days. If the company has been organized, you would have taken noticed from the start. Once the first flag shows up...prepare for more. To the portion of your statement to open up to more clients referral. Be careful...


Sign Up!

 

[mbasch]

We have 2 common sayings around our shop: 1) No good deed goes unpunished. if you bend your rules with a customer once they will take advantage of you and expect it every time and scope creep will beat you down, costing you money. 2) This job would be easy if it weren't for the customers Why they make thinks as difficult as they possible can is beyond me! Often customer are their own worst enemy when it comes to us meeting their deadlines and budget.

 

[Gettin'By]

It's too bad we can tell 'em to want in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first sometimes.

 

[John Miller]

Tell the client the project is really two seperate jobs. One is to produce useable artwork, the other is to produce the labels. Get paid for the first job and then proceed to the second.
First payment will give you a hint of how long their payment cycle is.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

This, unfortunately is a struggle that I am working with. The general attitude that my customer service people have is "Yeah, that'll be no problem!" to absolutely any schedule the customer proposes. Customers roll in with a brand new truck, ask to speak to the owner and twenty minutes later a job drops on my desk that we can do real quick because the customer needs it... and he'll wait for it. So, this means that whatever I was working on has to go on hold while I switch gears and try to put the pieces in motion to brand a truck. Just today, in fact, I was given a job that had been approved by the customer only minutes before and was told it was a rush.

Nothing that I have ever done as a sign-maker has ever been anything I would consider a "need". Closest I have seen to a "need" would be a sign for a lost pet. Most people "want", they don't "need". If this sign is that important, it was that important a week ago when you procrastinated and put it off. Now that you have a deadline, or you finally decide to "want" it, now I'm supposed to freak out.

I love what I do, and I really do want to help my customers get what they need. We bend over backwards to meet ever ridiculous, last second rush job. We do our absolute best for our customers. But, yeah, in all of the print/sign places I've worked, this has been more or less ubiquitous.

"Lack of preparation on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine."​

From an owners perspective, this is an annoyance but these are the things that make you money when you squeeze them in. It also can buy you time with them on future projects, rush a few through and sit on a few. You just have to train them that you CAN do things fast but you are not going to each and every time. Eventually it can gain you some really loyal customers. Like Victor said in another thread, utilize the dead time, it's damn near free money. It obviously can't become the norm as constantly changing your schedule will eventually eat into your production but you can make it work if you keep it under control.

Edit to add, if you ever were in sales, you would have a better feel for why the good sales people do this. Saying no is the fastest way to eliminate a prospect or existing customer forever. You always say yes at first to stop the shopping, then quickly try to figure out how to make it work. If you absolutely can't and you get back to the customer right away then you save face. 9 times out of 10 you can make it happen. I can't count the number of people we have picked up as long term customers after their existing vendors told them no on something they needed quickly.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

From an owners perspective, this is an annoyance but these are the things that make you money when you squeeze them in. It also can buy you time with them on future projects, rush a few through and sit on a few. You just have to train them that you CAN do things fast but you are not going to each and every time. Eventually it can gain you some really loyal customers. Like Victor said in another thread, utilize the dead time, it's damn near free money. It obviously can't become the norm as constantly changing your schedule will eventually eat into your production but you can make it work if you keep it under control.

Oh, I'd love to tack on rush charges! I agree with you. It is money on the table. "Well, sir, you did say that you need it, so this little fee shouldn't be an obstacle."

But, we rarely charge rush fees. At least much rarer than I'd like. So, essentially the difference between a job we have a few days to make and a job that they need right now (and will watch me produce) is nothing. Same price.

The thinking is that it creates good will and turns the screws to our competition, who actually take time to make stuff.

I hope I'm not coming off as too bitter about this.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Oh, I'd love to tack on rush charges! I agree with you. It is money on the table. "Well, sir, you did say that you need it, so this little fee shouldn't be an obstacle."

But, we rarely charge rush fees. At least much rarer than I'd like. So, essentially the difference between a job we have a few days to make and a job that they need right now (and will watch me produce) is nothing. Same price.

The thinking is that it creates good will and turns the screws to our competition, who actually take time to make stuff.

I hope I'm not coming off as too bitter about this.

Rush fees sour the whole deal. I may suck it up and eat a rush fee if we need something quick but I sure as shit will not go back as it feels like they are taking advantage of your bad situation. I know people here will disagree and that's fine, it is just how I have always looked at things. I'm also not talking about onsie twosie street walk in crap, they can go down the road. You have to weigh their potential, it can be a huge opportunity.

You also need to look at what you just said about time. You can do it fast, you just don't want to do it fast. The only thing that can legit stop it from happening is your actual machinery or facility constraints. For us, it is our paint booths. We juggle stuff in and out all day every day, spray and take it out wet to do the next thing but often times there is a large job like a crane being sprayed where this is just not an option and you are hamstrung.

 

[JBurton]

Nothing that I have ever done as a sign-maker has ever been anything I would consider a "need"

I recently finished a job with a lien waiver and a liquidated damages clause, it may not be their 'need' to meet a deadline, but they're going to squeeze the 10k/day of damages out of every sub that wasn't finished. It's amazing how quick crews just start pouring in on those last couple of days...

spray and take it out wet to do the next thing but often times there is a large job like a crane being sprayed where this is just not an option and you are hamstrung.

Or you give them the Thursday special, 'I'm painting a red crane today, as long as you like it, we'll send paul through the booth carrying the panel for a quick coat. Fingerprints are free!'

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I recently finished a job with a lien waiver and a liquidated damages clause, it may not be their 'need' to meet a deadline, but they're going to squeeze the 10k/day of damages out of every sub that wasn't finished. It's amazing how quick crews just start pouring in on those last couple of days...

Or you give them the Thursday special, 'I'm painting a red crane today, as long as you like it, we'll send paul through the booth carrying the panel for a quick coat. Fingerprints are free!'

We have a customer with LD's on every job. Luckily, their vendor options are few and far between so we do not accept it in the contract. We sprayed a beacon tower for the airport a few years ago and it was the same thing. They went in circles trying to find someone else but eventually came back and agreed to waive the LD's.
We do the whole throw it in with another job all the time. We use 1 red (safety red), 1 orange (JLG), 1 white and 1 black consistently for anything that comes in that has a red white or black for this reason. Yellow, blues, greens etc are more specific. We've been shooting a bunch of crane man baskets and bet they are all a different shade of yellow, just depends on what other larger thing we have going yellow at the same time. It took me a few years to finally get it into my head that the customers don't care or even know the difference on many jobs.

 

[Gino]

A sign shop is just like any other business when it comes to customers and their expectations.They really don't care what your backlog is, a machine is broken or someone called in sick. They expect to get what they want or need. Like mentioned earlier..... some bloke walk-ins, send 'em off, but your repeat customers need to depend on you. Saying the file isn't good enough as described in so MANY threads is quite common, since the beginning of computers. Get used to it and figure out a way to beat it and move on. I can't tell ya how many times we'll say, 'we'll gang it in with this other job'. That makes them smile. We have several printers and cutters, so it really shouldn't be a bottleneck. Making silly excuses only makes you look silly. If you feel a 'rush fee' is too hard to get, raise all your prices across the board to make up for these times.

Do/did you know, that a certain percentage should be part of your overhead for pricing when it comes to mistakes, things going wrong and all kindsa other stupid predicaments ?? We have added 4.5% item to everything going out the door, which makes up for a lotta these things.

 

[Signarama Jockey]

Rush fees sour the whole deal. I may suck it up and eat a rush fee if we need something quick but I sure as shit will not go back as it feels like they are taking advantage of your bad situation.

I think that some might think that their procrastination is equivalent to a "bad situation". Some people - you're right - get put behind the eight ball despite their best efforts. Other people let the proofs mellow in their inbox for a few days, avoid being decisive, can't be reached, avoid paying, have poor communication habits and generally put themselves in the bad situation. I don't pity the latter bunch.

You also need to look at what you just said about time. You can do it fast, you just don't want to do it fast.

Then we're back to the project management triangle. Do you want the job done on time? Do you want the job done right? Do you want the job on budget? Pick two.

Speed is valuable to our customers. I think it should have a price tag on it.